Anyone else annoyed by Stefan?

If you get a chance, watch the video essay bonus feature if you have the region 2 (with the pink cover I believe). The writer analyzes the film very well and presents several plot details and character analyses that aren't easily apparent.

His name is Tag Gallagher, historian, scholar and biographer(though not well known in the country of his origin...the USA). His interests include John Ford, Roberto Rossellini, Kenji Mizoguchi, King Vidor, Douglas Sirk, Josef von Sternberg, Max Ophuls and...Abel Ferrara.

His observations about Letter... are available in written form online as part of the long essay, "Max Ophuls : A New Art, but who notices?"
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/02/22/ophuls.html

Read the sub-heading, "Letter" dedicated to analysing the film.

He makes a point that Lisa is a masochist. She seems to love the pain and degradation. I cannot remember the specific instances, but I remember the author supported this extremely well.

That's not what he said exactly. Mr. Gallagher doesn't use "masochist" as a word to throw around and the like. You have to read what he says in detail to understand what he means by that.

Here's an excerpt

"The same masochism pervades the movie, but since we experience it from Lisa's point of view, we don't see it as masochism. Instead, we share her delight in dedicating herself; we see her as she sees herself – as a Romantic saint. As in La signora, Ophuls involves us in madness. But none of this makes Lisa less sympathetic, or her suffering less real."

Lisa is as much self-centered as him. She falls in love with him even before seeing him. She is a young girl that just want to fall in love. But even becoming a mother and marrying a man, she never grows up. She still lingers to the idea of loving a great man that never existed. This dooms her, her son and in the end will cause the duel (possibly killing her loved man).
All in all, both are quite self-centered, childish person.

'What has been affirmed without proof can also be denied without proof.' (Euclid)

I don't think Lisa is a masochist and she wouldn't have left his apartment towards the end if she was. Actually, she's the opposite in some ways as she is someone who is unwilling to accept the general conditions of her society by just playing her part and I would say falls for Stefan largely because of the freedom he represents in her imagination due to his status as a famous musician.

I'd also say that she wasn't so much devoted to him as to the idea of him and as such can't accept him as a human being with faults. Part of the reason he doesn't adequately remember her is because she doesn't help him remember. After reading her letter, he remembers her quite well and knows she's somehow important to him when he sees her at the opera.

great discussion, and i too missed the ending somewhat at 3 am....

i dont know if they can do justice to remake this one.

seems to me she was pretty selfish to desert her husband for him given that she has a son to take care of. if i remember correctly she was high society and was given fur and finer things in life.

funny but survival instincts wouldnt have allowed her to do what she did, especially that early morn duels were common, and ladies of ill repute ddidnt go far.

“People in real life constantly fall in love with people who don't "deserve" it. Besides, should "deserve" have anything to do with love in the first place? The world would be so much easier(and boring) if love was as simple as being granted to those who "deserve" it. Besides what can a person do to "deserve" love?”

What I meant was that he had mistreated Lisa and that she was better than him. She really deserved someone better and his actions didn’t warrant that sort of deep love Lisa felt. I’m not criticizing the film; I can see a similar scenario playing out somewhat regularly in real life. I was just making an observation.

Re: Gallager. I watched his essay on “The Earrings of Madame de…” and was again impressed. He really clarified a lot. I believed he referred to masochistic behavior in Louise.

“And Stefan Brand(Louis Jordan) is romantically dedicated to his art above all other considerations just as Lisa is dedicated to him above all things.”

Drinking and screwing around seem to become more important than his art. I think he admits it toward the end. He expresses regret over Louise and not being more dedicated to his music.





-"Is it nothing to you that I shall hate you for this." H. Barret
-"Less than nothing." E.B.

She actually did impact his consciousness and he didn't tell her a bunch of lies. Actually, quote me one lie.

He's a self destructive person with low self esteem who doesn't feel like he can live up to expectations people have of him as an artist. He's also pretty self absorbed and his womanizing is about proving and numbing himself.

His first date with Lisa though includes many details that show she is special to him like when he buys her a single white rose instead of the usual red roses, tells the man driving the carriage not to put the cover up like he usually would and is obviously touched when she tucks in his scarf.

His self absorption makes him scatter brained as when he forgets his other date, tells the man trying to make him look at a musical piece, "tomorrow" and forgets he has to go away for a concert but why would he track Lisa down where she works to tell her where he is going and to meet him at the station for a romantic farewell if she meant nothing to him?

Why exactly they never saw each for over 10 years after the "two weeks" at the station is open to debate or rather conjecture but I would say that for his part the way she treated him was dangerous to his negative self image as she had too high an opinion of him which would touch on his deeply rooted fears of inadequacy. His self deprecating remarks and inability to accept compliments ran counter to her opinion of him and as a self absorbed creature of habit I would guess that he fell into the traps of procrastination and denial in regards to her and that she fell into the traps of narcissism and pride--requiring him to seek her out.

Further, when he sees Lisa over 10 years later at the opera he is quite obviously and dramatically effected by it and is trying hard to remember her and knows she's somehow important to him.

However, none of this prevents him from being very nice to everyone he meets as we see him give money to children and treat his mute man servant and the people he deals with quite well.

That he is rather confused by Lisa during all of their encounters is really more her fault than his as she's never willing to be open with him or even provide many details about herself and even more crucially, accept him as the flawed man he is because she has built him up as an ideal.