MovieChat Forums > Unconquered (1947) Discussion > Paulette Goddard miscast in this movie.

Paulette Goddard miscast in this movie.


A good movie over all but Paulette Goddard was badly mis-cast. She is supposed to be an English woman with not even a hint of an English accent. She gave by far the weakest performance of all the main characters. I think that Maureen O'Hara or Loretta Young would have been a much better match for this role.

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What does an accent have to do with anything? Lloyd Bridges didn't have any accent either. I suppose you would downgrade Jack Hawkins performance in Ben Hur because he was playing a Roman with an English accent?

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Her lack of an accent stuck out like a sore thumb in the court room. After that it was all down hill. Her performance was weak with or without an accent.

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I've read the book which is not "The Judas Tree", but "Unconquered". Most of the accents were probably not as they should have been. How DID early Americans of British descent talk? Those who still had ties with the Mother Country should have spoken with some British accent. Then there begs the question: what part of England/Britain did they reflect? Were they Scots or Welsh or Irish (Ireland belonged to Britain then)? Were they from Cornwall or Northumberland? Abby was not a Londoner by birth and so would not have had, for example, a "Cockney" accent.
Paulette Goddard was a very accomplished actress and, accents notwithstanding, she played the part quite well, though I think a younger actress would have been more convincing. Paulette was in her late thirties when the film was made. Abby was supposed to be only about 17-18 years old, beautiful and well-formed. Ann Blyth would have been more convincing, but she'd have to have blonde-red hair. Marilyn Monroe was about the right age and youth in 1947. In my opinion, the best in terms of age and appearance, perhaps even character, would have been Grace Kelly, though she was an unknown in 1947.
While an excellent tale of adventure and of early American history, I do wish that the film would have included more about her life in England before her move to London and the unfortunate fate that met her and her brother.
There is no scene in cinema that compares with Cooper and Goddard going over the falls.

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I just rewatched this film last night, having bought the DVD yesterday afternoon. I have always enjoyed Paulette Goddard. I liked her performances in MODERN TIMES and THE GREAT DICTATOR and SO PROUDLY WE HAIL. I had no problem with her performance. As far as age is concerned, actors and actresses often play roles that are younger or older than their real ages -- that is part of portraying a character. For example, at the opening of GONE WITH THE WIND, Scarlett O'Hara is supposed to be sixteen years old. Vivian Leigh was in her twenties, but no one complained that she was at least ten years too old to play Scarlett.
The argument that Paulette's accent wasn't right for the film is extremely weak. Let's take as an example 1938's THE ADVENTURE'S OF ROBIN HOOD. Robin was played by Errol Flynn, an Australian, Marion was Olivia de Haviland of British parents, Claude Rains, Prince John, was of London was British, and Sir Guy of Gisborne was played by Basil Rathbone, who came from South Africa. No one objected then or now to their accents, however, if one were to authentic, each of these characters should have been speaking in Norman French -- NOT ENGLISH -- as Norman French was the language of the upper class at the time.
What accent should Abby Hale have had? Scots? Scots-Irish? Irish? Cornish? Welsh? Lincolnshire? Yorkshire? There were many (are still) many different dialects of English. As someone who grew up and still lives in the Pittsburgh area, where Abby Hale and Captain Christopher Holden most likely settled and lived, and none of us here have any problem with the way we speak. If you actually studied our grammar here, you would probably find that much of our speech comes directly from these early settlers. That is probably why western Pennsylvania has its own dialect of English.

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Much as I admire (and adore) both O'Hara and Young, I cannot envision any actress better suited to the role of Abigail Martha Hale Holden.
"Accents" have changed considerably in the past 200 years. We linguistics practitioners don't like to say "accent." We prefer "intonation" or "mode of speech." But to use the more familiar term, there are well over 100 different "accents" and styles of speech found today in England alone, not to mention Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and the Channel Islands. There are more than six distinct accents in London alone.
In any case, in the i8th century, the English had not developed the intonation that we Americans of the 20th-21st centuries recognise as "British English." In fact, the standard "British" accent was very like that of the Carolinas in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Abby was born and reared in Dorsetshire, at Cerne Abbas. Even today the Dorset accent has none of the high lilt nor the "hard jaw" of, say, the London West End, or Oxfordshire. For me, Abby's accent, although it was certainly not Dorset, did not detract one whit from a thoroughly delightful performance.
Tac, I too missed the early life portrayal; but deMille wasn't making a three-and-a-half-hour spectacle.
BTW, the film was a combination of The Judas Tree and Unconquered, rolled together in one; and even at that de Mille took cinematic liberties But I'm not going to dispute with the master of the cinematic spectacle.

Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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[deleted]


Thank you, lagnafrah. After posting that message, I watched the movie again and realised you are right.



Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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[deleted]

Lagnafrah,

I had taped the movie decades ago from a TV broadcast. When it came out on DVD, my joy was unconfined. I've been hauling it out to watch again at least once a year.
I read the book about 60 years ago, the first edition, and the story stuck with me. From what I read in "The Judas Tree", it seems that "Unconquered" is a fictionalized version of a true story, which makes it even more fascinating.

Cooper and Goddard are --- were --- so damned good together. I had seen the two of them earlier in "Northwest Mounted", in which she was a Canadian Indian half-breed and he a Texas Ranger. She did a very good accent in that one.

Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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[deleted]


It was amazing indeed. Stuntmen/women are the true unsung heroes/heroines of the screen.
When I see a hair-raising stunt, I often find myself wondering, "How the Hell did they do that?"

Just BTW, on the original idea of this thread (i.e., her accent), and if anyone is still listening, Abby was from deep Devonshire; the Devon accent is far, far from any "British accent" that would be recognized by most Americans.
There are well over 100 different and recognizable "British accents" in England alone, forget Wales and Scotland.
Peace and joy, brother.

Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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[deleted]

lagnafrah,

Looking back, I realise I had a memory lapse. Abby was from Dorsetshire, not Devon.
I don't know the Dorset accent at all; never met anyone from there, and never went to Dorset when I was in UK.

But as an aside, I have a movie called "Allegheny Uprising" based upon another of Swanson's novels, "The First Rebel," which I haven't read and can't find.
The film stars John Wayne and Claire Trevor, with George Sanders as the cold, vicious English commandant who, for want of a better term, is the villain of the story. He reminded me of Banastre Tarleton in Mel Gibson's "The Patriot."

Know anything about the novel or the movie?

Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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[deleted]

I first saw it about 50 years ago. Didn't know until this past winter that it was historical, or written by Swanson.
The lead character is "Black Boy" Jim Smith, so called because he and his men painted their faces black to raid under cover of darkness, disguised as Indians.

Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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[deleted]

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I don't remember the map; but I do enjoy maps of journeys and events. Right now I can't locate my copy of "Unconquered"; I've got some 4,000 books, shelved in no order at all.

Mate, you're living on historic ground. I'm impressed.

Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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"Northwest Mounted Police", One of my favorites.

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I thought Paulette Goddard was great in this film. I also thought she and Gary Cooper had a fantastic chemistry on screen. I wish they had made more films together.

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[deleted]

So do I. And I agree they were great together. So far as I know, they made only those two films together. And in Northwest Mounted Police, she wasn’t really with Cooper. She was the love-interest of Preston Foster, and a minor character. But she stood out like a shining star.

Keep On Truckin'

Sandman

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*Paulette Goddard* was miscast?

And not Boris Karloff as Guyasuta or Katherine Demille as his daughter???

http://www.amazon.com/Save-Send-Delete-Danusha-Goska/dp/1846949866

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*Paulette Goddard* was miscast?

It wasn't I who said she was miscast. I said
I cannot envision any actress better suited to the role of Abigail Martha Hale Holden.

***
Boris Karloff as Guyasuta

Karloff (neé Bill Pratt) could do no wrong. He could have played Moses or Elwood Dowd or Bugs Bunny with equal aplomb and artistry.
Katherine Demille as his daughter

If anyone was miscast, she was it. She did not convince.

Howard Da Silva, one of my all-time favourites and, woefully underrated, did a superb job as the villain.

Sandman
**
Kittens may be born in the oven; that doesn't make them biscuits.

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