MovieChat Forums > Brighton Rock (1951) Discussion > In the book....

In the book....

posted 18 years ago by aeroplane
12 replies | jump to latest

I saw this film before reading the book. Can someone clear something up for me, please?

[Minor spoiler below...? Well, it happens at the beginning so it's not really a spoiler]

...

In the book, there's no mention that Pinky kills Kolly Kibber/Hale on the pier, is there? Hale just disappears while Pinky's gang are hunting him and the reader is left to deduce that Hale was indeed killed by the gang. Or did I miss something where it actually says Pinky murders Hale? I don't have the book to hand, but it's been playing on my mind.

Also, I could have sworn that the woman who played Ira was the same woman as the housekeeper in The L-Shaped Room (1962)

[–] hemmur22 18 years ago

I read the book a couple of years ago for AS level (and thought it was brilliant!) The clue to how Pinkie and his gang killed Hale is in the title of the book as well as clues throughout the text e.g. I think its Cubitt who says something like 'I'll never look at a stick of Brighton Rock in the same way.....' Greene suggests that Hale was murdered by Pinkie and his gang in the sweet shop at the dingy underworld of the pier. It's never directly stated by Greene but there are hints that he was suffocated by the gang who forced a stick on rock down his throat so he couldn't breathe.

I can't help you on the Ira part, sorry!

Hope that helps!

[–] aeroplane 18 years ago

Thanks a lot, certainly an interesting macabre ending for poor old Hale! I always had a problem with the film as I thought, having been to Brighton several times, that you could easily fall off the pier and not die. It doesn't seem too high up and the water seems deep enough so you won't necessarily (sic?) break your neck on the rocks or anything.

Still, a stick of rock down the throat. Ouch. I don't think I could ever look at a stick of rock again...

[–] zygimantas 18 years ago

I thought the book and movie were nearly identical, except, of course for the killing of Fred like you mentioned and also the ending - spoiler spoiler spoiler:

the book ends in religious horror, with Rose clinging to the last bit of hope to save her soul, that Pinkie loved her, but on her way to play the record that will prove he doesn't.

the movie ends with religious redemption, as the record skips on "I love you," leaving Rose with the false belief that Pinkie loved her.

I guess this board is too sparsely populated for a good old debate on the subject, but how does that go down? Somehow, it is a false redemption. Rose is willing to sign away her soul if Pinkie didn't love her, but a mistake leaves her with hope for his soul and her own.

Since Greene wrote the screenplay as well as the book I can only assume this is okay with him.. he was Catholic but explored good and evil a lot, without being too diegetically judgmental about it.

Maybe the record skipping was "God working in some mysterious way" to save Rose's innocent soul?

I also liked Dallow better in the movie, he was more forceful and certain about his role as saviour to the girl.

[–] steven-davis 18 years ago

"the movie ends with religious redemption, as the record skips on "I love you," leaving Rose with the false belief that Pinkie loved her.

I guess this board is too sparsely populated for a good old debate on the subject, but how does that go down? Somehow, it is a false redemption. Rose is willing to sign away her soul if Pinkie didn't love her, but a mistake leaves her with hope for his soul and her own. "

Very powerful ending.
A big *beep* you" from god in my mind.

Poor Rose is about to play the record, now if she hears the entire record she has a chance to realise her mistake, to grow, to hate Pinkie for a while, then maybe forgive him, move on, and find happiness with someone else. As it is God decides to play one of his nasty little tricks (the camera movement to the cross at the end in my mind denotes the hand of god in the skipping record) and so Rose is left thinking that Pinkie did love her, and how happy they could have been, and how much she will miss him.

Well done God, that poor innocent child is now messed up for life.

[–] the_masked_cheese 18 years ago

quoted from the trivia bit:
"The film was meant to end with Rose listening the poisonous recording made by Pinkie, which contained the line, "You said you wanted to know how I feel; well, here it is: What you want me to say is 'I love you'. The truth is I hate you, you little slut..." However, this ending was vetoed by the British Board of Film Censors, who made the film-makers shoot a happy ending. In this version, the film ends with the record getting stuck and repeating the phrase "I love you..." The camera then tilts up to a crucifix, suggesting Pinkie's salvation."

[–] zygimantas 18 years ago

so it's all about censorship.. that figures..

anyway in the book the ending is only her on her way to go listen to the record... we can assume that she will hear the message, but the more optimistic among us can also hope that the record was broken or taken or something distracts her on the way... anyway the book doesn't explicitly say that the record doesn't skip, it just doesn't depict her actually listening to it at all..

[–] aeroplane 18 years ago

I read a Daily Mail article, from 1946 or 47, that wanted to ban the film entirely for it's 'morally reprehensible' content. It seems the censors eventually allowed the violence to go ahead uncensored, but the language was too much, so they only kept in one recording of Pinkie's bad-language.

As two uses, apparently, would have been enough to get the film banned or censored greater than Greene would have wanted... Reminds me of censorship in the 70s-80s-90s, where an exact amount of *beep* would raise the certificate from 15 to 18, so if a film said *beep* three times, it would be a 15, but 4 times or more would ensure it got an 18 certificate. Seems odd to have a 'quota' of bad language, as if hearing a word four times would mean that you'd have to be 3 years older than if you only heard it three times...!

[–] awaywithwords 14 years ago

*** WARNING: SPOILERS BELOW ***

SISTER: My child, there is always hope. It's the air we breathe. You can't understand, nor I, nor anyone for that matter, the appalling strangeness of the mercy of God. We have to hope and pray.

ROSE: I want to hope. But I don't know how.

SISTER: You say he loved you -- there's hope.

ROSE: Even that sort of love?

SISTER: Any love.

Rather than interpreting the record skipping on "I love you" as a cruel joke by God, I see it as a miraculous intervention by God, an act of mercy to allow Rose to sustain her hope in love, and therefore give her a chance at redemption. Pinky was dead. What purpose would be served by telling her the horrible truth about his nature? This fragile creature did not seem capable of dealing with such a brutal betrayal.

Rose's character in this film cannot be judged by the jaded and cynical standards of today. We may be tempted to pierce her wide-eyed innocence and sincere Catholic faith with the cruel, hard truth -- the "facts" as Pinky had written them for her -- but for what purpose? What good would be served by telling this naive, young girl the terrible truth? She is already experiencing tremendous guilt and inner turmoil at having been prepared to commit the gravest of sins for Pinky's love, and boundless grief at his death so soon after their young marriage. To suddenly discover Pinky's cold, calculated betrayal via his own cruel words -- in his own voice, as if speaking from the grave -- would be more than reckless and inconsiderate. It would be cruel. It would crush her soul.

If she was your daughter, and the decision of whether to tell her the harsh truth about Pinky was in your hands, you would no doubt choose to leave her naive and misguided romantic illusions untouched and unspoiled. As a father, you would not -- and could not -- choose otherwise. You would not say that she deserves to suffer for her mistakes. You would not say that she must be punished because she has not expressed any regret or remorse for her actions. You would not say that she needs to grow up and face the hard truth like an adult. No, you would protect her youth, her innocence, her faith in love. It is the same for God. Rose is his child. Under such circumstances, for Rose to be allowed to remain blissfully ignorant is indeed a merciful blessing -- a forgiveness that is nothing short of miraculous.

[–] MrEdnablackadder 10 years ago

The downright cruel and pessimistic ending of the book might have been too strong for a 1947 movie, but I thought the way the screenplay handled it was very clever: seems like fate keeps deceiving the naive and easily impressionable Rose, something that's even more cynical in some way. Depends how you read it. They didn't just went for an easy-going solution, but gave us an affectingly ambiguous ending.

[–] musicbcc 17 years ago

I don't know about the L-Shaped Room but she was in Mary Poppins. Played Ellen.

As for Rose, poor thing, it was changed so that it would be a happier ending instead of a sad one for the sake of the audience, or to make money. That's what my book told me.

"Death is not the greatest of evils; it is worse to want to die and not be able to." Sophocles

[–] ndhand 15 years ago

To the original poster - in the book there is mention that Hale suffered a heart attack while being strangled, thus the coroner's pronouncement that he died of natural causes. There is no direct scene of the murder, but Pinkie recalls it at one point.

[–] fordraff 15 years ago

On page 127 of David Thomson's book, "Have You Seen. . ." A Personal Introduction to 1,000 Films," Thomson writes that playwright Terence Rattigan wrote the first version of the screenplay which "was reckoned to be far too pleasant, with a weird happy ending. So the Boultings then turned to Greene and asked him for a screenplay of his own.... But Greene, naturally enough, included all the Catholic references." Thomson then tells of the recording Pinkie made and the manner in which the film was originally filmed with Rose hearing the recording and understanding Pinkie didn't love her. Thomson then continues, "The British Board of Film Censors could not endure it, and the Boultings were compelled to reshoot the ending so that the record sticks and repeats on "I love you." In the last paragraph of his essay, Thomson writes, "The American version was not censored (the film was called "Young Scarface)." I take that to mean that somewhere there is a version of the film with the original ending. So all the debate about the thematic or philosophical significance of the ending is pointless. It's not Greene's ideas there. It's the British Board of Film Censors saying this is how it has to be.