'Mr.' Eden
Does anyone know why the surgeon is called Mr. Eden, instead of Dr. Eden? Was it possible to be a surgeon in the U.K. at that time without being a medical doctor?
shareSome googling turned up this article attributed to the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1420777
Here's a relevant paragraph (under the INTRODUCTION header):
"Around the world, medical professionals of all disciplines enjoy the status of being addressed as `doctor'. In contrast, most surgeons in the UK are addressed as Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms. A small number of countries including Ireland and parts of Australia and New Zealand retain this dichotomy of titles for physicians and surgeons, while colleagues in the USA remain confused and perplexed that senior UK surgical colleagues are not doctors."
"Everybody has a story ... and a scream."
Thanks.
shareThanks. That was bugging me. Now the only question left is "why?" There is a special title alerting the world that the anesthesiologist is a medical doctor, but no special title to denote the same for surgeons? No offense to the anesthesiologists out there but, to me, a surgeon is a bit higher up the food chain and I would expect him to be denoted the same or better.
Curious. In the UK, are dentists called Dr. Or podiatrists, optometrists, etc...? Is this oddity reserved ONLY for surgeons?
This Royal College of Surgeons site offers some more info: http://www.rcseng.ac.uk/patients/information-about-surgery/questions-a bout-surgery/questions-about-surgeons#why-are-surgeons-in-the-uk-calle d-mr-or-miss-or-mrs--rather-than-dr-
Why are surgeons in the UK called Mr or Miss or Mrs, rather than Dr?
In most other parts of the world all medical practitioners, physicians and surgeons alike, are referred to as 'Dr' whereas in the UK surgeons are usually referred to as Mr, Miss or Mrs. This is because, from the Middle Ages physicians had to embark on formal university training to gain possession of a degree in medicine before they could enter practice. The possession of this degree, a doctorate, entitled them to the title of ‘Doctor of Medicine’ or Doctor.
The training of surgeons until the mid-19th century was different. They did not have to go to university to gain a degree; instead they usually served on apprenticeship to a surgeon. Afterwards they took an examination. In London, after 1745, this was conducted by the Surgeons' Company and after 1800 by The Royal College of Surgeons. If successful they were awarded a diploma, not a degree, therefore they were unable to call themselves 'Doctor', and stayed instead with the title 'Mr'.
Outside London and the largest cities the surgeon served an apprenticeship like many other tradesmen, but did not necessarily take any examination. Today all medical practitioners, whether physicians or surgeons have to undertake training at medical school to obtain a qualifying degree. Thereafter a further period of postgraduate study and training through junior posts is required before full consultant surgeon status is achieved. Thus the tradition of a surgeon being referred to as ‘Mr/Miss/Mrs’ has continued, meaning that in effect a person starts as ‘Mr/Miss/Mrs’, becomes a ‘Dr’ and then goes back to being a ‘Mr’; ‘Miss’ or ‘Mrs’ again!
You gotta start off each day with a song ... even when things go wrong .... share
So, basically, it dates back to when surgeons were butchers and didn't deserve the title of Doctor. But England, being tradition-laden, kept the title, which nowadays is an odd choice of title because surgeons have more training/degrees. How unusual and interesting. Thank you for the detailed information :-)
share