MovieChat Forums > Gilda (1946) Discussion > Messy story telling?

Messy story telling?


Why would Ballin invite Johnny to his casino right after he identifies Johnny as a skilled cheat?
The only narrative reason is that he was going to use Johnny. But he really doesn't. He has other plays and he doesn't really need Johnny. He ends up wanting to kill Johnny out of revenge which is a complication for him he wouldn't have it he doesn't bring Johnny in....
What is Gilda's play? She has married rich, get's every thing she wants, but still sleeps around recklessly.
So now the real point: Where is the real indication that Johnny and Gilda knew each other prior to the events in the film? This is a pretty big plot point, but the film never really convinces me of it. Sure when they meet he is smitten, but that alone doesn't suggest some prior relationship.
And even if she does know him, I would win the lottery before she just happened to marry the guy Johnny started working for two days ago in a different country therefore reuniting them. That is an insane coincidence that is beyond belief.
Why would Johnny want anything to do with Gilda? She has zero value as a companion. She's hot sure, but you don't put your hand on a hot stove either because it will obviously burn you. She's poison.
Help me out here. I consider myself a pretty astute watcher of film but this one made about zero sense to me right down to the "justifiable homicide" where the totally obvious cop guy just walks out of the story as though shooting a guy who faked his death right in front of him isn't worth getting a little clarification on......
This film is a mess, can you clean it up for me?
Hayworth was way better in The Lady From Shanghai.

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Ballin wants Johnny because he can identify cheats. Gilda's and Johnny's expressions upon meeting were sufficient to suggest a prior relationship. Audiences then didn't need 15 minutes of film spelling that out like today's audiences seem to.

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I agree with everything you say. Was thinking the same thoughts... It must be a mass hypnosis thing where Rita Hayworth's sex appeal/beauty makes men suspend critical judgement, and the fact so many stars such as Glenn Ford and Frank Sinatra loved her so much also caused people to suspend critical thinking. Finally, those who may have voiced critical objections would not attend a movie about a stripper and a card shark. So the movie stands unassailed. It was beautiful, with some great acting, fantastic sets, and gorgeous clothing and hair! And a great, memorable song. Could that be much of the attraction and not the story line?

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No, there are two stories. Ballin the international head of the tungsten cartel, for whom everything else in this movie is a smokescreen; and Gilda trying to get Johnny back, so that her every apparent action is an act meant to drive Johnny crazy until he has to have her.

It was certainly not an accident that Gilda would know where Johnny was -- it seemed clear to me that she and Johnny knew each other "back home," and there was apparently "that night," when Gilda must have appeared guilty of cheating on Johnny. So Johnny leaves her and runs to Argentina, and Gilda is right behind him. He won't listen to her side of the story, and she is furious at him. She never loses sight of him and soon enough he's very visible, running Ballin's casino. Easy enough for "a girl like Gilda" to meet Ballin and captivate him. Good luck for her that he is crazy enough to marry her after just one day. Now everything she does and says is meant to make Johnny crazy with jealousy. Gilda is not a whore; she isn't sleeping with men all over town the way it looks to Johnny. It's just an act.

Meanwhile Ballin doesn't care too much about any of it. He might even know the reason Gilda married him. But he also thinks he knows Johnny -- which he does, until the very end when Johnny finally shakes apart. Ballin has the perfect smokescreen working in Argentina: his casino, his ultra-loyal friend Johnny, and his beautiful scandalous wife Gilda. But Ballin's true interests are his tungsten monopoly and his machinations to "rule the world." That is the real story that is happening behind the scenes. Johnny's obsession with Gilda is just something amusing and twisted to watch. Even more amusing to make Johnny chose, again and again, between Ballin and Gilda -- he hurts like hell but he chooses Ballin every time. Think how a man like Ballin would have been amused. But it's just a sideshow; what he's really about is ruling the world, and things are getting sticky. So when Ballin has to disappear for a while, it seems safe enough to leave everything in loyal Johnny's hands. And it is safe for quite a while.

But Ballin underestimated something. I guess maybe the power of true love? Which could be the moral of the movie? Johnny didn't know that Gilda wasn't the most important thing; Johnny couldn't just ignore her; so he came apart and spilled the tungsten racket to the cops, which Ballin didn't anticipate. So Ballin comes back from the dead to find his monopoly busted, thanks to what he thought was so darn funny before, Johnny's infatuation with Gilda.

I think the story plays out pretty clearly if you see that Gilda has one goal throughout the movie, to get Johnny back. Ballin and Johnny are more complex, but Ballin's actions are also pretty understandable if you remember that he really only cares about the tungsten operation.

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It must be a mass hypnosis thing where Rita Hayworth's sex appeal/beauty makes men suspend critical judgement, and the fact so many stars such as Glenn Ford and Frank Sinatra loved her so much also caused people to suspend critical thinking.


First of all, a correction - Frank Sinatra was in love with Ava Gardner, who was his second wife. Sinatra and Rita Hayworth made one film together, Pal Joey (1958). While they seemed to have liked and respected each other, they were not, to my knowledge, ever romantically linked. Glenn Ford was in love with Rita; he was one of the few men in her life who loved her for herself, rather than her star image. Victor Mature was another. Rita Hayworth, was by all accounts, a very shy, insecure, but gentle person who went out of her way to do the best work she could and get along with others. She did lack formal education, but that was not her doing; her controlling and abusive father made her the family breadwinner by making her his dancing partner when she was just 12 years old. It left her with a sense of insecurity and this, coupled with her traumatic childhood, made her vulnerable to other abusive and controlling men. People who knew her well felt sympathy for her and felt protective towards her. She was also, when in the company of people she trusted, very humorous. Yes, she was beautiful, but she was also very talented and a very caring person. I don't think it's hard to figure out why she was adored by so many people, including most of her leading men.

Hawkinssouth has fleshed the plot of this film out very well. While I agree with the assertions in other threads of this board that there was a homosexual and/or homoerotic vibe to the dynamic between Johnny and Ballin early in the film, I disagree with the notion that some on this board (although not in this particular thread) think that it is the driving force of the narrative or the overall story. It isn't.

The reason why Ballin is not developed much as a character is because he's not intended to be - he is the villain of the story, and it is revealed soon after Gilda arrives on the scene. While he is possessive of his wife, he does get a perverse pleasure out of the fact that she and Johnny have a volatile history, but he never really expects anything to happen between them. But when it gets right down to it, Ballin has no genuine, caring or loving feelings toward Gilda or Johnny. His agenda to rule the world and the power he anticipates it will bring is paramount to him. Johnny, while trying to remain "loyal" to his boss has strong, unresolved feelings for Gilda and this threatens to impair his judgement. He spends most of the movie fighting himself, even though Gilda calls him on it and he gives in once they are truly alone (in her bedroom, no less) and hates himself for it. Not just for the betrayal of his boss (and Gilda's husband) but for the fact that he allowed himself to kiss her and that it could have gone further. He's still attracted to her and despises himself for it. His need to control her is also a need to control himself. While his main motive was to punish her for what he perceived as her carrying on with other men, he clearly doesn't trust himself around her and feels that he may end up falling for her again. He probably never stopped loving her but the anger and hurt that transpired between them in the past motivates his actions.

Gilda was trying to get Johnny back, and also to hurt him in the way that he hurt her. While Gilda puts on an act, the love she feels for Johnny is still evident. She may have followed Johnny to Argentina, or found out some other way where he was and what he was doing so she used Ballin as a way to be near Johnny again.


Trivia: Gilda was Glenn Ford's personal favorite of all his films. Not really difficult to figure out why. He loved working with Rita Hayworth, but this movie was very special to him. Their chemistry in all their films was apparently very real.

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Interesting information! Do you happen to know anything about her relationship with Orson Welles? I think they had a child together ....

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Rita's relationship with Orson Welles started on a positive note; he was in a career slump and he had a lot of time to spend with her. After their marriage, Welles became increasing distracted by work and this left Rita feeling very neglected. He also wasn't much of a father to their daughter, Rebecca. By the time she made Gilda she and Welles were headed toward separation. Glenn Ford could sense that she was unhappy and she turned to him for comfort and support. Welles was also unfaithful and Rita knew it. Rita and Glenn ended their affair as soon as filming was over (and it would not be the last time they were romantically involved, unfortunately, the timing was never right for them to be together), but Orson found out about it later and showed up at Ford's house waving a gun, demanding that Glenn come outside. Luckily, that incident passed quickly when the police were called. When Orson was preparing The Lady From Shanghai he was told by Harry Cohn that Rita should be in the picture, and he agreed, as he owed Cohn money. Although the divorce papers had been drawn up, Rita didn't sign them because during filming she and Welles were briefly reconciled, but when he began fooling around with other women (again) she went through with the divorce. However, she always spoke of him with kindness, and he did the same where she was concerned. Welles always maintained that he loved her, but his work came first.

That's pretty much the gist of it.





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Nobody on this thread understands the movie from the very beginning. Ballin, a bisexual upper-crust aristocrat, is down at the docks looking for "rough trade" and finds it in a broken-hearted Johnny that now despises women because of his prior relationship with Gilda. Now watch the movie, it should make more sense as well as be more enjoyable.

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