Best Eisenstein film?


In Ivan Groznyy Eisenstein resume everything he has done before : social against power theme (the strike, potemkin)), music and image (Alexander Nevsky), modernity against antiquity boyards (the old and the new).
Plus in this film there's a lot of themes like love, friendship, betreayal, murder, social changes, patriotism, etc...
Unfortunately those themes disapear in Ivan Groznyy Part 2 who basically follows what happened in the first which is the tragedy of a lonely tyran. You don't see any love, friendship or social talk.
While in part 1 every will or intention a character has it's because a noble reason (Russian unity for Ivan, Family continuity for the boyards, Love for Kurbsky, Better social state for the crowd), in part 2 they all do evil things because of the power and hate, which are not noble reasons.
Part 2 looses the multiplicity of POV, charcters (you don't see Prince Andrei Kurbsky anymore, which was a great character) of the first.
But the visual style is oh my god, it's like seeing a lot of paintings in animation. The face expression is unique.
This is why I love the first Part and not the second.

Can someone explain to me why a lot of people still prefers part 2 ?

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The most studied editing sequences are:

1. Battleship Potemkin - Odessa steps sequence - #1 studied editing scene ever!!!

2. Aleksandr Nevskiy - (dee father of modern Russia, by-the-way) - infamous 'Battle-on-the-ice" sequence

Enjoy!!!

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Eisenstein was in the business of telling stories. Part 2 is a more accurate depiction of the selfish and insane Ivan the Terrible. Just becuase he didn't franchise his movies like they do now doesn't mean they are abd.

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This movies reminds me to Shakespeare A LOT, specially the part 1

As the original post says, this movies have all the main themes in Eisenstein and I love the stylization of the scenes, but anyway I think my favorite movie is "The Battleship Potemkin", but followed very close for "Ivan The Terrible".

1-The Battleship Potemkin
2-Ivan The Terrible (1 & 2)
3-Alexander Nevski
4-¡Que Viva Mexico!
5-Strike
6-October

Another of the most studied editing sequences (And maybe the most popular) is the shower scene in "Psycho".

I don't remember...the part 3 of "Ivan The Terrible" was intended to be in color?

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Just watched this, and was knocked off my feet. This is a brilliant movie, I have to watch it again.

I've always had a special place in my heart for 'Strike' though, (Potemkin notwithstanding, of course), but I think I have a new number one in this. Have to try and find part 2 now!

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I usually lump Ivan the Terrible parts I and II together, but I do prefer Part II to part I.

Its been a long while since I have seen them, so I can't recall exactly why...

Nevsky is great and Que Viva Mexico is interesting.

I'm not a huge fan of Eisenstein's silent films, as sacriligous as that sounds, I prefer Pudovkin's silent technique to Eisenstein.

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This movies reminds me to Shakespeare A LOT, specially the part 1

Especially The Henriad, King Lear and Titus Andronicus. And like Shakespeare who worked under terrible censorship and had to fear for his life, so did Sergei.

As the original post says, this movies have all the main themes in Eisenstein and I love the stylization of the scenes,...

For me talking of Eisenstein's best films is really hard because of the tragedy of his career, so many ideas, so few films made and even they are in blighted and incomplete prints or compromised by the choices of the story(Aleksandr Nevskiy especially). So it's hard to look at his films with an auteurist continutity. Of all the films he made Ivan The Terrible II : The Boyar's Plot may be the least compromised and most Eisensteinian of his films. But then both Parts I and Parts II connote a whole for me.

So for me it's Ivan The Terrible(I&II) in first place, October in second, then Que Viva Mexico! and The Battleship Potemkin and The Old and The New and Strike occupy fourth place as a tie. Aleksandr Nevskiy is the worst film Eisenstein completed and it's a great film too.



"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

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I saw both films fifteen years ago, so I speak from impressions my memory assimilated long ago and the fragments it has allowed to remain.

In the first film, Ivan's struggles are confined on one level within the borders of Russia, on another to the political intrigue and ambitions within his own family. Ivan is surrounded by enemies, eventually emerging triumphant.

In the second film, all foes are vanquished and Ivan rules undisputed. Ivan sits alone in his throne, falls from grace, is invoked and rises again.

These are independent stories requiring different storytelling, therefore different contrasts between the protagonist and his surroundings. Film One emphasizes the spirit of our hero against a background of forces external to himself, while Film Two emphasizes his spirit against an inner crisis.

As for cinematography, well, Eisenstein is the master so far. Since the same man behind the camera shot both films, the technique is equal in caliber. One can only compare the framing of masterful shots and decide which framing is more to one's personal liking, so do you prefer potatos or bananas? Overall, Film One is about social textures (however toxic), Film Two is about lonely contrasts.

I think it boils down to:
- Do you prefer a story about the struggles of a man becoming epic?
- Or a story about a man already epic and his epic struggles?

I can't help but think of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back.
Or the first two Godfathers.

Notice how I have so far avoided stating my personal opinion. I don't have one. In my memory's eye, both films have merged into one, while distinguishing Ivan's deathbed sequence (Film One) from Ivan regarding the globe while dictating a letter to the Queen Of England (Film Two).

However, I will state that I prefer The Empire Strikes Back as well as The Godfather Part II.

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Those are both in film one, goes to show though just how much the two flow together despite their differences, I think.

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Unfortunately those themes disapear in Ivan Groznyy Part 2 who basically follows what happened in the first which is the tragedy of a lonely tyran. You don't see any love, friendship or social talk.

Because in Part II, Eisenstein was dealing with the core of what's beneath the surface pageant trappings of his films. He was exposing the emptiness of being an almighty God-like tyrant(or the God figure in toto) and the fact that he put this insight into the mouth of a drunk fool pissed of Stalin who had it shelved for good.

While in part 1 every will or intention a character has it's because a noble reason...

Which is Stalinist gobbledegook(though Eisenstein's style never makes you buy that).

in part 2 they all do evil things because of the power and hate, which are not noble reasons.

And so closer to reality. Of both Ivan Vasilievich IV and Josef Stalin.

But the visual style is oh my god, it's like seeing a lot of paintings in animation.

Way more sophisticated than that. It's sculpture in motion. Each frame of the film, with the sets, the costumes, the performances and dialogues are so thoroughly choreographed and controlled that you can't separate one without destroying anything else.

The face expression is unique.
This is why I love the first Part and not the second.


But Part II has more of that and for greater emotional impact as well.

Can someone explain to me why a lot of people still prefers part 2 ?

Because the film is more experimental and complex than the first part which however great and magnificent is still held back by the Grand National Story of Great Hero theme of the film. Ivan II : The Boyar's Plot is essentially rituals and scenes of dialogue exchanges but Eisenstein invests his frame with great layers of meaning and density that these scenes become a million times more exciting than the battle scenes in earlier Eisenstein films. All of this culminates in the stunning dance number of the Oprichniki filmed in stunningly calibrated color.

And of course Nikolai Cherkassov's performance is among the best ever concieved for cinema.



"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

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I don't know about that. I think it lacks the sheer energy and use of montage that is in battleship potemkin or strike. it is still a great film but it just lacks something that his other work has.

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