Help! I'm confused!!!! Is there a coherent explanation anywhere!
This is an intriguing film; but I would love to know what happened!
***** SPOILER WARNING *****
Moose picks Marlowe basically at random to find Velma for him.
Marlowe tracks down Mrs. Florian and three things happen:
1) He discovers Mrs. Florian was lying to him and pretending to be drunk.
2) He finds a picture that appears to be of Velma.
3) He sees Mrs. Florian calling someone right after he left.
The next day, Marriott visits Marlowe and asks him to help out with the payoff for the jade necklace. At the payoff, four things happen:
1) Marriott gets killed.
2) Marlowe gets slugged and becomes unconscious.
3) The money gets taken but the necklace remains missing.
4) Marlowe sees Ann Grayle briefly before she runs away.
The rest of the movie is basically Marlowe running around and getting knocked unconscious repeatedly as he tries to understand these two cases, find out any possible connection between them, find Velma, and solve Marriott's murder.
The key thing that Marlowe eventually discovers is that Ann's stop-mother, Mrs. Helen Grayle, is actually Velma Valento, the woman Moose has been looking for. It took Marlowe a long time to figure this out because the photo he got from Mrs. Florian was signed "Always, Velma Valento" but it was actually a photo of a different woman. Mrs. Florian kept that photo in order to throw anyone looking for Velma off the track. Mrs. Florian was intensely loyal to Velma, perhaps they had even been lovers some years ago. When Marlowe sees Mrs. Florian making that phone call, she is calling Velma (Mrs. Helen Grayle) to let her know that a detective named Philip Marlowe is looking for her.
That explains why Marriot came to see Marlowe the next day. Mrs. Grayle had been being blackmailed by Amthor and Marriott. Amthor had demand the jade necklace in order to keep Mrs. Grayle's past secret (I'm not sure how he found out about her past though). If her secret got out she could land in jail for a crime or crimes she committed but Moose went to jail for. Mrs. Grayle didn't want to be blackmailed so she hid the necklace and claimed it was stolen. As luck would have it, this was just about the time she learns from Mrs. Florian that a detective named Marlowe is snooping around looking for her.
So she has Marriott go to Marlowe in order to hire him so that both Marriott and Marlowe will go to the secluded drop-off place and exchange the pay-off money for the stolen necklace. It is Mrs. Grayle (Velma) who kills Marriott and knocks Marlowe unconscious. She had planed to kill both of them but Ann shows up and thus scares away Mrs. Grayle before she can finish off Marlowe. She wants Marriott dead in order to end the blackmail scheme against her and she wants Marlowe dead in order to end his search for Velma.
There seems to be some bizarre teleportation going on. I can understand that Mrs. Grayle had hidden her car elsewhere and was lying in wait for Marlowe and Marriott at the drop-off spot, but I have no idea how Ann was able to find the drop-off spot nor arrive there unnoticed, nor flee on foot. I guess she followed either Marriott and Marlowe or her step-mother and then parked her car some distance away to avoid detection. Maybe she found out about the drop-off location and time by eavesdropping.
One more thing. when Mrs. Grayle takes Marlowe to the Coconut Beach Club, she was planning to have Marlowe picked up by Moose and taken to Anthor so Anthor could find out if Marlowe had the necklace. I'm not sure how Moose and Anthor got connected but it must have been through Mrs. Grayle. She found from Mrs. Florian that Moose had hired a detective to find her so she told Anthor to get in touch with Moose. Anthor already knew of her secret past with Moose (which was what he was blackmailing her about). But I'm still a bit fuzzy as to why Mrs. Grayle thought it would be a good idea for Moose and Anthor to work together. Anyway, Mrs. Grayle was constantly trying to kill two birds with one stone. She had Anthor try to get the necklace from Marlowe in order to convince Anthor that the necklace really was stolen and if Marlowe got bumped off in the process, all the better. It was essential to Mrs. Grayle to keep her past secret so she could stay out of jail.
We are treated to another near magical appearance by Ann Grayle in the Coconut Beach Club. Again, I guess she must have found out about the rendezvous from eavesdropping. That would explain why she knows that Mrs. Grayle is not going to stick around and instead Marlowe will become "sidetracked". But it seems very unlikely to me that Ann could get information like that from eavesdropping yet still not know about any of her step-mother's darker secrets.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
(I'm not sure how he found out about her past though)
Amthor found out about her past because she went to him for therapy for a speech impediment. In therapy she revealed her past to Amthor. Amthor's racket was to dig up tit bits from his clients in order to blackmail them.
Sheesh...is some of this from reading the novel? Because I certainly didn't catch all of that from watching the film.
shareA lot of that is from reading the novel and then taking one's best guess. In some ways, this movie excels at adapting Chandler (and Marlowe) to the screen; plotline, however, isn't one of those ways. Which is rather weird, in that plot wasn't necessarily Chandler's forte to begin with.
To be fair, it should be noted that Chandler built his plotline for the novel by combining three short stories he'd previously published in Blask Mask magazine {"Mandarin's Jade," "Try The Girl," and "The Man Who Liked Dogs"). In doing this, he managed to weave a story involving an excon looking for his old girlfriend in a part of town that used to be white but is now Afro-American, a blackmail/jewelry heist operation, a psychic who bled the rich and made them like it, offshore gambling and a psychiatric hospital that doubled as a hideout for fugitives. Oh, yeah, a few murders, too.
The screenplay takes great liberties with the book, but four-hour movies weren't going to happen back then unless they happened to be titled "Gone With The Wind." Subplots had to be eliminated, motivations streamlined, and characters either eliminated or juxtaposed. (As an example: "Ann Grayle" -- the stepdaughter -- doesn't exist in the book; "Ann Riordan," on the other hand, is a freelance writer who happens upon the scene after Marriott is murdered and takes an interest because her deceased father was a cop. Establishing this cinematically would have weighed down the continuity, however.)
Regards,
Dud
I just watched this movie last night and I'm glad to see some light shed on the plot. Everything about the movie was great, the cinematography, acting, and directing were all top notch, but, there were a few confusing points.
***SPOILERS*** For instance, I still don't get the connection between Mrs. Florian and Helen Grayle. My take on it is this - when Marlowe brings to light all of Grayle's secrets in front of her at the climax of the movie, I could swear he mentions that Mrs. Florian was blackmailing Grayle as well. I don't think it just had to do with loyalty or some kind of love these two women shared. Florian was blackmailing her too, since she obviously knew about her past as well, since she knew Grayle when she was "Velma." Florian tipped off Grayle to Marlowe's looking for her in order to keep her past quiet, and therefore keep the money coming in. If Grayle is found out and carted off to jail, Florian can't blackmail her anymore. And going back to Grayle being Velma, I believe that the photo Marlowe takes from Florian's house IS Grayle, only how she "used" to look, when she was a showgirl named Velma. If you look closely at the face, it still looks like Claire Trevor, only as a brunette in a showgirl outfit. That's why Moose mentions how different she looks but still "cute as lace pants" when he sees her dead at the end.
Those are just my thoughts, and I know what you mean about Anne Shirley popping up all over. When she arrives at the scene where Marriott is murdered, and finds Marlowe knocked out, she runs after seeing him because at first she thought it was her father. Marlowe sheds light on this later on in the movie, saying that she was afraid it might be her father, and that he might be involved somehow, just trying to protect his wife (Grayle). And they do establish her eavesdropping habits when Marlowe catches her listening at the door to the living room when he meets Grayle for the first time. So I agree that she must've found out everything through eavesdropping.
Thanks for clearing things up. I lost interest about 1/3 of the way through.
shareHoly hell, man! I loved this movie the first time I saw it because of the characters/cinematography/atmosphere, but @ the end of the movie I still didn't really get what the hell was going on. Seriously, they need to include an insert with a plot summary like the one you guys wrote out just to help viewers understand what just happened after the credits roll.
Anyways, after reading all this I'm finally understanding it, thank you. I think it's time to go back and watch it again.
This is probably the best explanation of a very complicated plot. A job well done.
shareActually, that scene at the Coconut Beach Club was a huge risk for Velma/Mrs. Grayle, if she knew that Moose was going to be there. If Moose had spotted her, that would have blown a few things wide open for her.
It is possible that Velma/Mrs. Grayle wanted Moose and Amthor to get connected so that Moose might bump off Amthor, or even Amthor could have bumped off Moose? Just a thought... They were both problems to her.
So, Velma was able to manipulate Moose to meet Marlowe and bring him to Ampthor without Moose knowing about it?
"Two more swords and I'll be Queen of the Monkey People." Roseanne
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I'm glad others were confused. I had no idea what was going on through half this film ... I even rewound and started over about half-way through. I remember reading once a really long time ago that Chandler said his plots were so confusing that sometimes even he wasn't sure what was going on with them - especially in the Big Sleep. I should've kept that in mind while watching this. Even after reading your summary, I'm still a little fuzzy on the motives/details ... it's like the film skips over too many parts. One thing I can't understand was the photo. How did Marlowe know that wasn't a photo of Velma? Did I miss that explanation, or did they just jump to that and assume we'd take his word for it? I still don't get how he figured out who the real Velma was. shrug.
With so many unexplained events occurring, Marlowe had to question why Velma had yet to emerge, and that is when he began to try on different ideas until the pieces fit, and that's normally the way he said he solved his cases.
Marlowe's eyes: The gun blast was like a firecracker exploding in his face. share
This thread's explanation has some of the facts wrong.
It was Marriott who Mrs. Florian called and that fact is revealed when Marlowe confronts Helen at the beach house while Moose waits outside. It's my belief that Helen and Marriott faked the necklace heist to get Amthor off their backs and to get rid of Marlowe for these reasons: Helen didn't want to be found by Moose and Marriott didn't want Marlowe to be a loose end that could ultimately spoil the fact that he had gone soft for Helen and that he had in fact turned on Amthor as Amthor suspected. Another fact that leads me to this conclusion is Helen's story that she and Marriott (or "Lin" as she referred to him) were robbed of the necklace after a night of dancing. It has to be a phony story the two of them concocted because Marriott would certainly know whether or not she was even wearing necklace that night. Helen, as Marlowe guessed, planned to kill Amthor last.
At the exchange site, Marlowe left the car with Marriott in the back seat, but he's found dead at the wheel. It appeared that he was supposed to drive away and leave Marlowe to be killed by Helen, but Helen didn't trust Marriott and decided to knock him off before he could get away. In all this time, Marlowe was making his way back to the car where Helen was laying in wait to kill him too.
From the way Marriott was made to come across, I didn't think he would have gone soft for Helen. But, yes, the dialog stated that he had.
"Two more swords and I'll be Queen of the Monkey People." Roseanne
"I would love to know what happened!"
Me too.
"The key thing that Marlowe eventually discovers is that Ann's stop-mother, Mrs. Helen Grayle, is actually Velma Valento, the woman Moose has been looking for."
This is THE key piece of information that they hold back until nearly the end of the movie. The first time I got a sense of it in the film was when Marlowe, out of nowhere, tells Moose he's found Velma. WHA'...??? I didn't get that.
Sometimes it's fun, KNOWING a plot (after you've seen it or read it), to watch again, this time knowing in advance, and being able to piece everything together because you've seen it before. But NOT this time. KNOWING in advance who Velma really was, I STILL could not make heads or tails of this plot!!!
"When Marlowe sees Mrs. Florian making that phone call, she is calling Velma (Mrs. Helen Grayle) to let her know that a detective named Philip Marlowe is looking for her."
4 or 5 times I'vbe watched the film, I still didn't "get" that. What kind of screenplay was this, anyway?
"I certainly didn't catch all of that from watching the film."
Me either!
"Chandler built his plotline for the novel by combining three short stories he'd previously published in Blask Mask magazine"
Just like THE BIG SLEEP was based on 2 shorter stories. Did this guy have a shortage of story ideas?
""Ann Grayle" -- the stepdaughter -- doesn't exist in the book; "Ann Riordan," on the other hand, is a freelance writer who happens upon the scene after Marriott is murdered and takes an interest because her deceased father was a cop. Establishing this cinematically would have weighed down the continuity, however."
I found it ironic that the only version of this story that DID feature "Ann Riordan" was-- heh-- THE FALCON TAKES OVER.
I believe Ann Riordan also appeared in a couple episodes of the Powers Booth TV series, played by Kathryn Leigh Scott (one of my favorites!).
"I lost interest about 1/3 of the way through."
I keep hoping it'll make more sense on repeat viewings. Not so far.
"that scene at the Coconut Beach Club was a huge risk for Velma/Mrs. Grayle, if she knew that Moose was going to be there. If Moose had spotted her, that would have blown a few things wide open for her"
KNOWING Mrs. Grayle was Velma, that thought was going thru my mind, too. Moose showing up at that exact moment, she had to have gotten Marlowe there just so he'd be a target. I just wasn't sure why until in read this thread. (5 viewings of the film certainly didn't help. I'm not usually dense with mysteries like this...)
"It is possible that Velma/Mrs. Grayle wanted Moose and Amthor to get connected so that Moose might bump off Amthor, or even Amthor could have bumped off Moose? Just a thought... They were both problems to her."
A very good point. As it happens, Moose DID kill Amthor. It was funny how when Marlowe blurted that out, he realized he'd made a mistake, since Mrs. Grayle WANTED both Amthor and Marlowe out of the way.
"I remember reading once a really long time ago that Chandler said his plots were so confusing that sometimes even he wasn't sure what was going on with them - especially in the Big Sleep."
The irony, for me, is that the 1st time I saw thru THE BIG SLEEP-- the version with Robert Mitchum-- I had NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER following every single detail of the plot. (Do you know, there are actually people online who COMPLAIN about that movie's plot being told in such a crystal-clear fashion???)
I'm really glad that amidst all the discussions about which Marlowe is best of which version of this story is best, that there was at least ONE thread actually discussing the "plot" (and I use that word loosely-- heehee).
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I noticed the homosexual vibe between Amthor and Marriott and knew that Velma was Mrs. Grayle from the photo that Marlowe snatched from Mrs. Florian when he went in to her bedroom. It was obviously Claire Trevor with darker hair. But I still couldn't follow all the twists and turns of the plot(s) nor could I put all the pieces together at the end. This was my first viewing of "Murder, My Sweet" and I look forward to seeing it again in the light of the comments here posted.
shareBluesdoctor: "You can watch the movie over again and never derive the satisfaction of seeing clues that were there all along right before your eyes (simply because they're NOT there)."
YYYEAH.
That's one of the real joys of watching "DEATH ON THE NILE" or "EVIL UNDER THE SUN" or "THE TOMB OF LIGEIA" or even "THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS". The 2nd time around, it's a completely different movie, because you KNOW all this stuff now, and it's right there in front of you.
Actually, of the 4 examples I listed, "EVIL UNDER THE SUN" gave me the most trouble. I understood it completely each time I watched it. But, unlike the other 3, it was SO complex, SO dense, I'd forget the details between viewings, so each time I'd watch it would be brand new again. I finally remembered about 5 times in, but only when I ran the tape back and watched the last half hour over again.
7 times so far with "MURDER MY SWEET", and still, it continues to get more confusing as it goes on, not less.
the ann character was very stupid.
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