I'm just wondering if anyone trusted the Willy at the start. If so, how long did you? Personally he had me completely fooled until he started talking to the one-legged guy about Rosie.
If you have telekinesis, raise my hand.
Nah, I never did, especially since when I saw this movie in school, at the same time we were studying the Nazis during the Holocaust. It REALLY made me hate the Nazi. Also, it was kinda obvious that he would be able to English once the whole language barrier subplot was set up.
shareI wanted to trust him, but I didn't. Or couldn't. I figured that since the movie came out during the war, the German captain would have to be a villain.
shareNo way to trust a nazi.....
shareI wanted to trust him because I thought it would be a twist - an innocent Nazi during the war. I think I gave up that hope when he started yelling in English.
shareI too wanted to trust him but his hiding the compass bothered me until he amputated Gus's leg (which I think was required as even Alice looked horrified at the state of his leg). I was truly shocked when I saw him push Gus in the drink and realized I had begun to trust him. After that scene though my first thought was "context" .. it's 1944 wartime, of course the German's going to be bad. Dah. Always have to remember the times that movies are made, it reflects the mores of the day.
Loved the movie though - the end was a bit of a letdown. But overall I was happy to have seen it.
I didn't trust the Willy from the first moment he looked at his compass. Every
one was (literally) in the same boat, and he was already being sneaky, rather
then helping get everyone to land.
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Here we go again, all about the bad bad Nazi boys, the executers sent directly from hell and the good wins over evil once more...give me a break, I'm so tired of it. I don't want to correct what many people's history lessons have missed out on but please consider that the 'Nazi' character here is only being used to reflect what is present in all human beings (whether Willy is a Nazi or not has been left open, by the way) Indeed, this movie is brilliant - as it shows so cleverly the war within the human soul. I think the intro message has explained it quite well. Forget the Nazis, it's much deeper. I don't want to open a political discussion (and don't worry, I also consider the holocaust a dark spot in history) but here is my respect, even in 1944 at the peak of the war, Hitchcock has understood the deeper motivations of America's 'enemy' and consequently the reason for the holocaust and WWII. If you understand the movie correctly you will see that there is no winner, as there isn't (or wasn't)one in real life. Wars are not really fought between nations or political systems but rather between deep rooted psychological conflicts in the human mind. Call them Nazi's, Romans, Communists, Christs, Muslims etc...the list is endless when it comes to human projections but the true evil and the true good is present in all of us and the struggle with those influences belong to life. Let's learn from the past but please don't just file matters as WE are good and THEY are evil - over and out. If we keep thinking like that nothing will change.
Oh, regarding the question: Hmm...I guess I did. I like happy ends - even in Hitchcock movies, but it wouldn't have delivered the message properly, would it?
cheers!
I couldn't agree more. But I have a few remarks.
The term "Nazi" mustn't be equated with "Germans" anymore. We are smarter today than that. And even in the past it was wrong as a generalization.
Because "Nazi" is a state of mind. Oskar Schindler was in the Nazi party, too. So following the simple logic of some of the posters here, he was a Nazi. But was he? I think not.
And back in 1944, "Nazi" was mainly a name for the enemy. There was no widely spread knowledge about the Holocaust yet outside of Germany, "Nazi" did not have the same meaning in the world, as it has obtained after the war.
Nowadays, "Nazi" is a term for a person who has extreme rightwing opinions, openly shows racism and intolerance, denies the Holocaust and glorifies Hitler's regime. There are Nazis today all over the world - even in those countries who suffered most under Hitler's regime.
Everyone who favours a strong ruler and is susceptible for propaganda and simplifications, can become a Nazi.
So be beware, you who like to generalize, because when you do that, you think and act just like a Nazi follower would do...
I really wanted to trust him, but there were subtle clues throughout the film that led me to think otherwise. Besides, as someone already mentioned the mere fact this was done in 1944 meant the German had to be the bad guy... I mean there had to be a twist and this was the obvious choice...
Anyhow, I felt that reasons behind him killing Gus were pretty clear... First of, he was a CAPTAIN of a German ship, he obviously was politically involved just by this fact alone. Also, he constantly claimed to be a reasonable man who trust science above all, and he said it in such a way which reminded me of the kind of 'scientific' excuse the Nazis used for their sick ideas...
And at the climax of the movie, and this is pretty much the strongest proof that he was a Nazi - when he starts talking Gus into going to Roseland, he's trying to get rid of a cripple even though he had the water to save his life (in accordance to Nazi philosophy) and right before he pushes him he tells him:
'Just remember your name is Schmidt, not Smith, when you go to her.'
This is literally him reminding Gus that his name is Schmidt, he's a Jew, and then he kills him, so that as he's drowning in the ocean he would know that this is the reason he was killed.
So there you have literally a single line in the movie that prooves him being a Nazi.
Why a Jew? I thought he was German by birth and had changed his name to Smith because he was ashamed of being German.
shareYou are correct. Nowhere is it even hinted at that Gus might be Jewish (although that could have provided an interesting twist). Willie is simply angry at Gus for changing his name from the germanic "Schmidt" to the anglicized "Smith", which a lot of people did in the US, mainly during WWI. He throws that line out to the oblivious Gus merely as a final insult.
share[deleted]
Schmidt isn't a Jew: he's German. That's why he changed his name, not because he was ashamed of Judiasm, but because his German roots would - however wrongly - associate him with the Nazis. When Willy tells him, "Remember your name is Schmidt," he's reminding him that he's a German. And he does this right before he kills him! Which of course he does because he's now handicapped and is a burden to their survival: plus he's seen that Willy has water, and he can't risk Gus telling the others.
"I'm not exposed to bespeak any such information to you..."
Which of course he does because he's now handicapped and is a burden to their survival: plus he's seen that Willy has water, and he can't risk Gus telling the others.
I had my suspicions, but wanted to give him the benefit. After he killed Gus in cold blood, I could have cared less about him. Although I understand the other survivor's anger, killing the German was wrong as well.
shareThe population of Nazi Germany prior to the war was about 69,000,000. The Nazi party only had a membership of about 1,000,000. So only about 1 out of every 69 Germans was a Nazi even officially.
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Here we go again, all about the bad bad Nazi boys, the executers sent directly from hell and the good wins over evil once more...give me a break, I'm so tired of it. I don't want to correct what many people's history lessons have missed out on but please consider that the 'Nazi' character here is only being used to reflect what is present in all human beings (whether Willy is a Nazi or not has been left open, by the way) Indeed, this movie is brilliant - as it shows so cleverly the war within the human soul. I think the intro message has explained it quite well. Forget the Nazis, it's much deeper. I don't want to open a political discussion (and don't worry, I also consider the holocaust a dark spot in history) but here is my respect, even in 1944 at the peak of the war, Hitchcock has understood the deeper motivations of America's 'enemy' and consequently the reason for the holocaust and WWII. If you understand the movie correctly you will see that there is no winner, as there isn't (or wasn't)one in real life. Wars are not really fought between nations or political systems but rather between deep rooted psychological conflicts in the human mind. Call them Nazi's, Romans, Communists, Christs, Muslims etc...the list is endless when it comes to human projections but the true evil and the true good is present in all of us and the struggle with those influences belong to life. Let's learn from the past but please don't just file matters as WE are good and THEY are evil - over and out. If we keep thinking like that nothing will change.
Oh, regarding the question: Hmm...I guess I did. I like happy ends - even in Hitchcock movies, but it wouldn't have delivered the message properly, would it?
haven't seen this film for a while but i loved every minute of it! i love ww2 films made during ww2. it is striking that when the film came out there was cotroversy since people thought it was sympathetic to the german whereas now, over 60 years later, people think the opposite. what you must remember that the german (notice i did not say nazi) knew the only route to safety and the rest of the passengers did not. even if an allied base was in reach you must remember that he is alligned to his country and possibly thought that he might have been killed there...of course that is the beauty of hitchcock films, leaves more questions than it answers. great film tho!
kicking jobo's big fat ass on a daily basis
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<<Wars are not really fought between nations or political systems but rather between deep rooted psychological conflicts in the human mind. ...the true evil and the true good is present in all of us and the struggle with those influences belong to life.>>
Well said.
Doctor Mabuse, Evil Genius, King of Crime
Horse hockey. Ideals, psychobabble, revenge...all wars are land wars. They may tell you it's about some high-minded reason, but it's all about who controls the land, and subsequently, the moolah. And those who control the land are not the foot soldiers but those whose hands stayed clean and safe throughout the fighting.
shareI didn't trust him from the beginning. I never believed he couldn't speak English, because he was too confident. He knew exactly what they were saying, and how to counteract it.
Also he was so cold blooded when the baby and the poor woman died. Not the slightest glimmer of compassion, not even fake.
I guess it's like looking at clouds. You see one thing and I see another. Peace.
Just so we're all clear, he was not a Nazi. The Nazis were the leaders, the politicians, not the lower ranking military people...even a U-Boat captain.
shareBasically correct but to be more precise: A 'Nazi' was everybody who was a member of the Nazi ( NAtionalsoZIalistische Partei Deutschlands) party.
We don't know whether the captain is a member. Actually, there were many people who haven't been members but not being member meant a lot of hassle, it just didn't help the daily life.
In order to achieve ANY higher military rank (like captain) it was more than likely that one became a member.
I don't know if that was true. Rommel, for example, never joined the Nazi party and I don't think a lot of the other top generals did, either. The German Army had a long history of being nonpolitical, so I'm not sure that party membership was that common among the officers (at least outside of the Waffen SS).
shareConsider the Kapitan in Das Boot and his constant irritation with the Nazi party member put on the boat. While Willy may have been a party member, there is no evidence to support the claim.
share I also trusted him at first, because I could see no reason not to. After all, after some debate they took him aboard their lifeboat and shared their meager resources with him, even though he was one of the ones who sunk their vessel.
While he may or may not have been a member of the Nazi party, he certaintly shared some of their more odious ideas. This becomes apparent when he talks Gus over the side. To him, Gus is just a cripple who is wasting valuable resources, and it would be better off for everybody if he were eliminated. Very reminiscent of the large-scale euthanasia that the Nazis performed on those who they considered mentally deficient. So while there is no definative proof that he was a Nazi, I'm inclined to think that he was.
Why did he perform the amputation though if he believed that it would be better for mankind for him to die than go on living with one leg?
To win their trust maybe? That would be a valid theory, I guess. But I really was quite surprised by Willie pushing Gus overboard and his motivation isn't clear to me at all. Looking at it from a cold hearted risk / reward bases for Willie everything he did up to that point did sort of make sense to me but pushing Gus did seem quite unreasonable (even assuming Willie thought that's not unethical). How could he have thought he'd get away with that?
I was hoping the movie would focus a little more on the moral side of things and making it not quite so easy for the viewer to pick sides but I guess that's asking a bit too much for a movie made in 1944.
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I don't agree that resources or being crippled had anything to do with why he killed Gus. For one thing, they lost all of their resources in the storm. He simply didn't want the others to find out he was hoarding water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdUTaRHSSrI
There was definitely both malice and arrogance in his murder of Gus. Soon after Willi was brought aboard, Gus had said, "Throw him to the sharks!" Willi resented that, and hated Gus for denying his own German heritage. Willi's coldblooded murder of Gus was also an illustration of the Nazis' attitude toward the disabled. I'm sure all of these were factors in addition to the water issue. As it turns out, Gus had been right not to trust him!
shareParticularly true of the Kriegsmarine and the U-Bootwaffe. The German Navy was a lot less Nazi-fied than the other services (thanks largely to Erich Raeder).
shareHitch fooled me once again! I really trusted in the Nazi for some time but later I was proven wrong in the best "Hitchcocknian" style by the Master of Suspense.
Great movie. 8/10
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I started to trust him when he helped out the people on the boat, until he taunted Gus. I thought he was lying to the people because he was smart enough to know that it was the only way for survival and rescue, and not just for himself.