Miscast rank?


This movie ranks as one of my all time favorites but one thing that doesn't make sense are the ranks of 2 of the 3 main characters. First is Captain Fred Derry who was a bombadier. Before the war, he was a soda jerk so I presume he did not have any college under his belt. My understanding that in WW II, bombadiers and navigators were comprised of those who did not make it as pilots. Even so, they were all officers so with his background, he didn't seem to have the educational qualifications to become and officer. Her also could've stretched the truth when he was interviewed by the manager for a job at the old department store he worked at before the war. Told him that he did supervise others as an officer. This may have led to a better position rather than right back to being a soda jerk.

The second is Al Stephenson. Here is a loan officer at a bank but he is just a quartermaster sergeant? Chances are, he had a higher education, which would've put him in a position to become an officer but even if he didn't, seems his experience would of had him in finance rather than supply. And with his age, which I guess would be in his 40's or 50'sand being married with kids, I doubt he would've served. I had a great uncle who served in WW I and when WW II broke out, he enlisted but was turned down because of his age. He was 42.

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I should add that my great uncle did serve in WW II but through persistence after being turned did, the Army relented, and was put in an Artillery unit.

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It does seem illogical that Fredric March is an enlisted man while Dana Andrews is an officer. It may not make sense in real life, but I think it works from a dramatic standpoint. It heightens the contrast between the two men's social status in their military and civilian lives. The enlisted man becomes an affluent bank executive while the officer becomes a lowly soda jerk.

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It does seem illogical that Fredric March is an enlisted man while Dana Andrews is an officer. It may not make sense in real life, but I think it works from a dramatic standpoint. It heightens the contrast between the two men's social status in their military and civilian lives. The enlisted man becomes an affluent bank executive while the officer becomes a lowly soda jerk.


I suspect there were many men who rose through the ranks after fibbing about qualifications.

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To be sure. Audie Murphy was one (lied about his age).

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Audie Murphy never lied about his age. He had his sisters Connie's permission to enlist. Read To Hell and Back sometime or see the movie. He played himself.

"Listen, I don't tan, I don't burn, I implode."

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It most certainly did make sense in real life. All men, aged 18-45 were subject to military service, and all those 18-65 were required to register. The reasons they drafted who they did might remain a mystery to us, on the outside; but the Armed Services knew what they were doing back then.

A college degree was not necessary for most jobs in the service; and some men were commissioned officers solely based on their level of education. An uncle of mine, a PhD in chemistry, was a captain. He did NOTHING during the war. He was stationed in California.

*****************************************
There's no place like home.

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Al Stephenson - There were only so many positions in finance and quite a few bank officials. Plus, Al was too old to be an officer. I thought he was in combat? If so, that would make even more sense that he'd be a Sargent.

BTW, Dashell Hammett was accepted in the Army in WW2 at the age of 48.

Fred Derry - Yes, priority was given to those who had college background but plenty of guys without a college background became pilots or washed out of pilot training and became bombardiers. Plus, some guys, maybe Fred, volunteered for bombardier training and never wanted to be pilots. Those guys had a leg up on the wash outs from pilot training.

Plus, the movie is somewhat unrealistic in that Dana Andrews and Fred March are too old for their roles. There were plenty of 18-20 Year olds without any college who became pilots/navigators/bombardiers.

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Future senator Paul Douglas enlisted as a private in the Marine Corps in 1942 at the age of 50.

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Not really.

In Fred's case the attrition rate for flight crews (both in combat and training accidents) meant that they were looking for men who could do the jobs needed - not necessarily those that fit a classing system. There were so many officers in this situation after the war that the Army offered a "Bootstrap" program where they paid you (and for you) to go back to college and get a degree so you could continue on with your career.

As late as the early 1980's the Army had a "High School to Flight School" program to replace the dwindling pilots choosing to leave the service after Vietnam. You had two years (up to four years under special circumstances) to get your AA and up 6 to get your BS after completing flight school - so up to four years being a Warrant Officer with only a High School diploma or GED was possible back then. Upon completion you could opt to remain a Warrant Officer and advance, apply to Officer Candidate School and become a commissioned officer if you wanted command billets, or leave the service taking your piloting skills for an Embry-Riddle (if needed because of not completing a degree in time or to add fixed wing) short course stint and become civilian pilot. Another outcome was going into something aviation related (or something entirely different if there was a need) as an enlisted member. Borderline bad eyesight and a flight surgeon that couldn't be convinced to change his mind kept me from starting flight school even though I had passed the AFEES physical; but luckily as it turned out I landed in Cavalry instead.

In Al's case, he was most likely drafted/joined in '44 after having deferments for family, or possibly even had a key 'supporting the war effort' position being in the bank that kept him from being drafted at all - and decided to join anyway. He could have possibly been an officer, maybe not, or chose instead to be enlisted. No one was forced to be an officer against their will. I remember in basic training three guys were singled out for OCS. All three turned it down.

Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order

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Makes perfect sense. Although it helped, you did not need to have college to become an officer, Chuck Yeager being a prime example (although he went from enlisted to flight officer before being commissioned.)

And Al, an infantry sergeant, may have been in the National Guard before the war so he went in at the rank and specialty he had there. (For some reason, maybe something on his uniform, I got the impression he was a WW1 vet.)

The Guard is strange that way. I knew a lot of guys whose civilian lives were completely different from their military ones. I remember officers asking sergeants if it was possible to pick up any overtime because they worked for them. (Conflict of interest, i'd imagine.) And i knew guys who were enlisted infantry, but who had degrees and occupations that could have let them be officers in other branches. They told me they specifically wanted to do something different than their day jobs.

"I'll do the masterminding around here." -Sgt. Stryker, "Sands of Iwo Jima"

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My take on it is that Al did not get drafted. He definitely enlisted and deliberately pursued a combat assignment.

Had he allowed the service to bring him in and assign him according to his experience he would have ended up as a finance officer. If he had been young enough to be drafted (age limit was 36, I think, though it may have been raised to 40 later in the war) he could have been excused as his family's sole source of support or because he was in a highly valued civilian job (banking). In fact, he may have needed to wrestle with the system to be allowed to enter the service.

So, he enlisted and sought out a ground combat assignment. He would have been rapidly promoted to a position of responsibility (sergeant first class is platoon or higher staff rank).

Fred was drafted, given his tests, and scored high enough to qualify as a bombardier. He may have qualified for pilot or navigator training, but failed or he may not have qualified high enough to start with. Officer rank goes with the position and progression from second lieutenant to captain is automatic. In war time it is also going to be rapid.



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As somebody mentioned earlier, Al probably joined up because he was a WWI veteran and possibly still in the National Guard. As for Fred, attrition in the Army Air Corps was very high during the war and intelligent men from all sorts of backgrounds ended up promoted to officer and doing their duty inside a bomber.

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For rank progression in the Army Air Forces, keep in mind that the Army Air Corps had a strength of 20,000 soldiers in January 1939. They had a strength of 151,000 in December 1941. That's a growth of 750 percent in not quite three years. By June of 1944 (another 2 1/2 years) they had a strength of about 1.5 million or more. That's 1000 percent in 2.5 years (measured from December 1941) or 7,500 percent in 5.5 years measured from 1939.

Two of the more famous cases are Jimmy Stewart (Oscar for best acting in 1940, The Philadelphia Story) who was a second lieutenant in January 1942 and ended the war as a lieutenant colonel. He was promoted to colonel in 1945 or 1946. I would need to go dig up his information to see if he pinned it on before VJ Day. And Paul Tibbets (commander of the 509th Composite Group and Pilot of the Enola Gay) who was a second lieutenant in 1941 and made full colonel before he turned 29 years old in 19455.

20,000 soldiers need 1 major general, two brigadier generals, about a dozen colonels and proportionate numbers of junior officers (a hundred or so captains). 1.5 million soldiers need several full generals and so on. I figure they would need 15,000 or so captains. Promotion would come very fast.


The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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Not only miscast but way out of whack. Look at the service hashtag on Al's sleeve. SIX of them. Each on indicates three years of service. That would have meant that Al was in the army for over 18 years. That makes no sense in the storyline. Al worked at the bank before the war and made enough bucks to live in that nice apartment. The movie implied he was a draftee/enlistee and fought in the Pacific theater. Having those service hash marks on his uniform is a HUGE mistake to the character.

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As stated in another thread and still true in US Army today. His uniform has 1 hash stripe for lenght of sevice AND 5 overseas combat bars...
one for each 6 months of cbt service so about 3.5 years make sense as he served overseas Pac Theater

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