MovieChat Forums > Vredens dag (1948) Discussion > Marte's threats

Marte's threats

posted 16 years ago by aahronheim
8 replies | jump to latest

Was Marte simply "too good" to follow through on her threats to denounce Anne's mother (which would probably result in Anne's death)? Or was she just despairing that her threat would do any good (certainly at "the last minute")? And why was Absalon (seemingly) so confident -- even earlier -- that Marte wouldn't follow through, when the consquences of him losing that gamble would be not only his wife's death, but also the loss of his own reputation (and maybe his life) for having lied about Anne's mother?

[–] dombrewer 13 years ago

Whatever the answer to those questions she did leave it a little bit late to be making threats to Absalon twenty seconds before she was burnt to a crisp. In her position I think I probably would have assumed that there was no getting away from the fire and let rip.

[–] Tom_Cruises_Testicles 13 years ago

Her threat wasn't about Anne's mom right before she was burned. That was only during the torture scene.

Her threat before she burned was that Absalon and Anne would both suffer if they burned her at the stake. And all her threats came true (because she really was a witch).

The DAY of wrath was not the day she burned, but the day Absalon and the other guy died which leads to Anne exposing herself as a Witch(most likely being burned at the stake next).

I'm sure others will disagree, it seems many on this message board prefer the film to exist in reality where witches aren't real. There is a big clue that witches do exist in this film- The old woman first burned never says she isn't a witch, she simply says she doesn't want to die. Another misconception is that the film is about Nazi persecution, which even Dreyer himself has said No, it wasn't. But based off the Nazi allegory idea- it must mean the old woman was an innocent being punished. So that Misconception perpetuates the idea that Witches aren't real in this films universe. Probably If Passion of Joan of Arc was made in the 40s, it would also have been called an Allegory to the Nazis.

Also, I think many people go in to this film with the idea already preconceived that witches were just a superstition of the time. This despite Dreyer's use of the supernatural in his films (in Ordet and Vampyr) make the idea that of witches actually consistent. He wasn't a filmmaker always making realist films.

[–] inko8 12 years ago

okay, let's say witches are real, and witch trials work; if she drowns she's innocent, if she floats and lives--guilty and all that. then anne really did kill absalon, and is therefore powerful enough to kill her tormentors or do some kind of peace-out before she gets to the stake/ladder... kinda takes all the meaning out of the ending doesn't it?-- if witches are real, and anne is a powerful mind-killing witch, she is not doomed, but that isn't the intention at that point, so i support the idea that witches are not real, even in this setting.

"Ugh! I don't like this." --Ambrose Bierce

[–] marbleann 9 years ago

That old woman was no witch. She just acted that way because she thought if she admitted it she would not be killed. People admit to crimes even now because of some misleading and abusive cops.
These witch trials exist only because people do not want to admit wrong things they do so they say the devil made them do it. And what better person to use is women who had no power. Anything bad was credited to them.

[–] MikeLeighFan 9 years ago

In the first scene of the film, Herlof's Marthe is seen giving "herbs from under the gallows" to another lady (a patient?) and says that "[t]here is power in Evil!" when the other women makes a statement regarding the power of the herbs (being used as medicine?). This activity would have been considered witchcraft during this era.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 9 years ago

@Tom_Cruises_Testicles

Excellent post, most unfortunate user name. I agree that Marte thought she was a witch and believed in the power of evil, which she seemed to be using for good. Marte did not believe in God, the devil, heaven or hell though. Her concern was dying, not the afterlife and eternal damnation. Anne came to believe in her own evil even though it's possible she was not a witch.

A belief outside religion and any practise that went against men's orthodoxy led to claims of being a witch. In this context witches did exist; women who questioned religion and who practised homeopathy, as we know it, and herbalism.

A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.

[–] pabloxjustice 8 years ago

If you're looking into the 'actual' events in this film, I think you're missing the point. This film is about guilt, more than anything. How this guilt is passed from one to another.

[–] eolloe 8 years ago

it seems many on this message board prefer the film to exist in reality where witches aren't real. There is a big clue that witches do exist in this film

Hmm. Well, there are witches, and there are witches.

Do you mean by "witches," women (and/or men?) who seek to change reality by casting spells?

Or do you mean women (and/or men?) who not only seek to do so but actually can do so?