the ending - The Seventh Victim (1943) Discussion

[–] 20 years ago

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Basically Jacqueline just kills herself in the room with the noose. The last scene is really brief and yet so disturbing, as her dying neighbor goes out on the town happily, while you hear the chair knocking over in the room (meaning that she did in fact kill herself).

The satanists do in fact try to make her kill herself, but she refuses not so much because she doesn't want to die, but resents being MADE to kill herself. This might be the reason that they really don't get any sort of punishment in the film...they never actually kill anyone.

In fact I'd almost blame her sister more than the satanists. She saw the noose in the room, so why just leave it hanging there? Oh, and Jacqueline probably figured that her husband was secretly in love with Mary and thus it gave her more reason to kill herself to be out of the way (this is conjecture though).

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] mdonln 8 years ago

cabbageboy316 says > In fact I'd almost blame her sister more than the satanists. She saw the noose in the room, so why just leave it hanging there? Oh, and Jacqueline probably figured that her husband was secretly in love with Mary and thus it gave her more reason to kill herself to be out of the way (this is conjecture though).

Does Jacqueline get any blame in the matter? Where's her responsibility in all this? It seems to me she deserves most, if not all, of it.

She is, after all, the one who killed herself but let's go back a little. She was an unhappy person who could never be happy. She was always searching for something though she didn't know what it was. She had a lot going for her but couldn't see or appreciate it. She had a sister and a husband who cared for her; a business that was doing well; her health; and financially independence.

If she was so determined to kill herself, why not do it? Hers sounds like a real case of being too self-centered and desperate for attention. It was always about her and didn't matter who was involved; good people or bad. She sucked them all into the drama that was her life. All she had to do was write to her sister, make arrangements for her education, notify her husband, and leave a note. End of story.

Instead she hides in a place connected to her then kills a man for the unspeakable crime of opening a door. The satanists had tried to get her to kill herself before so why not leave town or go to the police; especially after killing the guy? She could have claimed self-defense; she thought he was one of them.

The whole 'caper' probably excited her; gave her what she was looking for; made her happy. She was the center of it all; all the drama. People were looking for her, trying to kill her, save her, hide her, etc. What power and what attention! As her sister, husband, and others who were on her side tried to help and got drawn into it, it was no longer just about herself. Their lives and safety were at risk too; except they didn't have a death wish like she did.

The satanists do in fact try to make her kill herself, but she refuses not so much because she doesn't want to die, but resents being MADE to kill herself.

What kind of satanists are these that believe in non-violence. They can't have it both ways; satan is pure evil. No, they didn't kill her but they wanted her dead and tried to make it happen. That's pretty bad in itself. She wanted to die so why was she against getting help doing it?

In fact I'd almost blame her sister more than the satanists. She saw the noose in the room, so why just leave it hanging there?

The chair and noose were symbolic. She could've killed herself any time, any place. Was she a baby? Her sister had to run around and keep her away from anything that she could use to kill herself? That's absurd because when she did finally go through with it, she'd blame herself for missing whatever she ended up using; much as you're blaming her here. At least she didn't do it in her sister's place.

While we're on the subject, why not drink the poison and let the satanist nuts dispose of her body? Killing herself in the apartment meant some innocent person would find her and get freaked out. She'd freak out every other resident in the building too. Her decomposing body smelling up the place, they might have to condemn the place. What if someone is suspected of killing her like her sister or husband? One could say they had motive. Why not let the satanists get the blame or at least force them to live in fear of being caught? Some may even feel guilty and turn the others in, ending the group.

Oh, and Jacqueline probably figured that her husband was secretly in love with Mary and thus it gave her more reason to kill herself to be out of the way (this is conjecture though).

No, I think she wanted to cause the people close to her to be in pain and be guilt-ridden in a way only suicide can do. It's a tactic used by the truly manipulative, unstable sort of self-obsessed people like Jacqueline. She turned her back on them but it probably bothered her immensely that her sister and husband bonded and fell in love. She wasn't happy and didn't want anyone else to be happy either. If she wanted to clear a path for them, she would have gotten a divorce and given them her blessing then she would have let everyone know she was going away. If at that point she killed herself it would be with a different intention.

Anyway, it's an absurd movie but I've seen worse.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

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[–] scootmandutoo 18 years ago

The ending was just one of the many contradictions in the film. One might even say her husband killed her...after all, didn't he admit early in the film to purchasing the noose?

As far as the satanists not being killers, they did send somebody to kill her. He just didn't get around to doing it before she killed herself.

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[–] startlepoint 14 years ago

I like your point. The so-called "normal" people in the film, Mary and Ward, are in some ways the most culpable and repulsive. Don't forget how Mary encourages the poor old detective to enter the door from which he emerges stabbed. And when Jacqueline comes out of hiding, Ward tells her nothing will harm her. Whom can one trust?

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[–] RodneyVervegard 11 years ago

I would have felt better about the detective if he had first said something like 'Look, you screwy dame, I brought you here free of charge - if you want anything more from me you're going to cough up some dough, see?' In an Edward G. Robinson voice, of course.

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[–] BNJ61 10 years ago

I would have felt better about the detective if he had first said something like 'Look, you screwy dame, I brought you here free of charge - if you want anything more from me you're going to cough up some dough, see?' In an Edward G. Robinson voice, of course.

Hilarious - I thought something very similar and then thought that this would have been a terrific film for the MST3K bunch to goof on.

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[–] marbleann 16 years ago

Geez today a daily dose of some type of anti depressants probably would of done wonders for her. My feeling about her is that even without the Satanists or the noose hanging in her room she would of tried to kill herself anyway. In Val Lewton horror movie I see I always feel some type of drug overtone is there. Some one seems to be under the influence of drugs more then the influence of certain protagonists, because they are always in trance like states.

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[–] Devans00 16 years ago

The landlords are as much at fault as the sister. After all, they also saw the noose with the chair under it. True, Jacqueline may have found a way to off herself anyway, but why help her by leaving the noose? What were people thinking?

No two persons ever watch the same movie.

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[–] startlepoint 14 years ago

Yes, I too thought the restaurant owners were also a bit creepy, especially the wife, telling everybody to smile and look happy in the midst of the looming darkness.

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[–] bon22 11 years ago

I agree with the idea that the "good" people in the film were culpable too: Why didn't the doctor, Ward Cleaver, the restaurant owners or Mary remove the noose? Makes no sense. I thought in the end, it would be revealed that the doctor, Ward Cleaver, the restaurant owners were part of the conspiracy. Also, the part where Ward tells Mary that he loves her, and that Jacqueline knew it, makes no sense. Further, it made no sense that the cult allowed Jacqueline to leave after she refused to drink poison: if they wanted to kill her, why not do it there, instead of taking a chance by sending the assassin? Maybe there were gaps in the story line because the film was heavily edited?

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[–] bon22 11 years ago

Spoilers:

Regarding the belief that the "good" people were just as culpable as the "bad" people and my belief that there are gaps in the story, this is what I think happened:
This film reminds me of Hitchcock's Suspicion where "A shy young English woman marries a charming gentleman, then begins to suspect him of trying to kill her."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034248/?ref_=nm_flmg_dr_35

Thru out Suspicion, the viewer wonders if the husband intends to murder his wife, or not. At the end of Suspicion, the audience sees that the husband loves his wife & would never kill her. However, that is not the ending Hitchcock wanted, nor the ending that the Hays Code would allow.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034248/faq?ref_=tt_faq_1#.2.1.13

So, I think a similar thing happened with this film: I think that Ward and the restaurant owners (and perhaps the doctor)were part of the cult/conspiracy and they wanted Jacqueline dead. However, I believe that the Hays Code would not allow that. So, the story had to be tweaked to pass the Hays Code & that's why much of the story/characters (in my opinion) didn't make sense.

OK, here's something:
http://www.terrortrap.com/specialfeatures/nightwalking/

"RKO finally gave the producer a choice - dump Robson or keep him, but go back to making "B" movies on the same meager resources as before. Lewton chose the latter...and off they went to make The Seventh Victim.

Unfortunately, it was this tumult before the film was shot that is the only thing that mars The Seventh Victim. When the script was written, it was done so with the idea that it would be a longer "A" picture. But by the time the movie was put together, it only ran 71 minutes - with scenes removed that leave some plot holes behind."

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[–] bon22 11 years ago

I'm getting way too into this story-gap/not making sense thing, but another thought:

When Ward tells Mary that he loves her, Mary responds with a depressed, doomed "yes". Mary is not happy to hear her bro-in-law loves her (that makes sense) & the audience hasn't seen how this love developed, nor understand why/how a "good" guy suddenly ditches his troubled wife and declares love for his possibly underaged sister-in law.

So, this is what I think happened: This was an A script chopped into a shorter B script: Thus, I'm guessing that in the A script, Jacqueline kills herself in exchange for the life of her sister: Ward was part of the cult/conspiracy and the cult gave Jacqueline a choice: either kill yourself or we'll kill Mary. So, in order to save Mary, Jacqueline hangs herself in the hope that Mary will be set free.

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[–] spookyrat1 10 years ago

...the audience hasn't seen how this love developed, nor understand why/how a "good" guy suddenly ditches his troubled wife and declares love for his possibly underaged sister-in law.

That was truly bizarre and was one of the many factors that, IMO, really detract from the quality of the film in the second half, after a quite interesting and compelling first half.

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[–] Superspectrum 10 years ago

For those interested, the original script is online here:

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/SeventhVictim.htm

Includes scenes that didn't make it into the film, including an entire epilogue.

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[–] JoeKarlosi 10 years ago

I think this is one muddled movie, and the end makes no sense. Very little does. The whole bit about the "devil worshippers" being reduced to shame merely by a few lines from The Lord's Prayer... very unsatisfying. The cultists attempting to get Jacqueline to kill herself for hours and hours to no avail; so they let her go home free (???) , and what's the first thing she does once she gets home? She kills herself anyway! Plus, they sent a hit man to follow her home with a knife -- why didn't the guy just stab her right at the meeting? And I thought they were self-professed "non-violent" anyway?

What's with the love element that pops up for no discernible reason, when all those two have done throughout the film is look and talk at each other without emotion, talking about the missing girl?

Look, I've never been known to be one of these viewers who questions every little thing about a film... but this was exceptionally ridiculous.

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[–] rebekahrox 9 years ago

Thank-you. If she wanted to die so much, why was she even running away from the hit man to begin with? Why didn't she just drink the poison?

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[–] karnevilelp 9 years ago

Thank you for posting the original script, the movie now makes a little more sense. 😃

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[–] henrimaine 8 years ago

The movie has an unusually dark and depressive ending for its time. I'm not saying that in the 1940s and before all movies had happy endings, but I would guess that happy endings were more prevalent and expected back then. But such a straightforwardly negative ending really came as a surprise to me. Mostly because I just didn't expect it from such an old movie.

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