MovieChat Forums > The Ox-Bow Incident (1943) Discussion > How many fans think this Western is an e...

How many fans think this Western is an example of Film Noir?


Please leave any response for a survey now being compiled. I will check back periodically to tally answers.

reply

I think I understand why you think it is film noir. Maybe no one has ever really defined film noir very well. I'll look it up later. I've always understood it to be a bit of mystery, but with lots of tough stereotypical characters. Even great film noir, such as "D.O.A." with Edmond O'Brien and Neville Brand, had a lot of tough stereotyped characters as mobsters, although O'Brien's character was astoundingly real.

I think the characters here were just too real and well established to be film noir. So I'll vote....

NAY!

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time
that's not funny!

reply

Thanks for your thoughtful opinion. I did not say I thought it was Film Noir, but am trying to determine if ANYONE would use that category.

reply

Interesting question. I think the answer is in the ultimate theme. Film noir stories are ultimately Puritanical. Law, order and justice will ultimately prevail in the story, as they do in Ox-Bow, but only after tragedy. And though the bad guys are always eventually destroyed or punished the good guys suffer tragedy too--Sam Spade in Maltese Falcon.

Or an ordinary chap loses his moral compass and--though the hero or protagonist--comes to a tragic end--almost like Calvinistic predestination, or tragic flaw. The best example is Walter Neff in Double Indemnity. Another is Postman Always Rings Twice. Classic noir films began with World War II, as almost an American back to moral basics movement in the face of Nazi-Japanese threats to America and Western civilization. In these films the country grabbed onto a severe moral compass and held on for dear life.

Heroes in noir film do not profit by their heroism or sacrifice--Sam Spade poor, but honest. Art and Gil in Ox-Bow are the heroes who undertake responsibility to care for the lynched man's family though they are blameless for his death. Conventional Christian morality dictates that virtue is its own reward; don't expect fortune for being good in this life. Again, this is a brand of cynicism, yet the nature of life on which most people would probably agree.

So, is Ox-Bow film noir? Emphatically yes, and it is in a clear lineage beginning with The Maltese Falcon in 1941, the year of Pearl Harbor. And it is dead bang traditional Puritanical religious-moral philosophy altering and illuminating the stresses and issues presented to America and a world in crisis. If you're at the end of your rope, grab it and hang on tight.

reply

the online dictionary defines film noir as simply having pessism, fatalism, menace, and cynical characters. What we get in film noir, with cynical characters, is stereotypical one dimensional cynicism unless the characters have a method to their madness. Clearly, Bigelow is a bit cynical since he has been poisoned and has no chance of survival in D.O.A. But this is the exception. Most characters in film noir are one dimensionally stereotypically cynical.

As for Ox Bow, the characters are pessimistic in a realistic way. Fatalistic? Not in my opinion. Guess that's open to debate. The lynchers didn't think they were fatalistic, although the seven good guys who opposed the lynching were fatalistic. But fatalism means the outcome is sure. In this case, the outcome was because of the ignorance of many characters in their rage. Menace? There is menace only to three at first glance, but as Fonda and Morgan note, there is menace against them, too. They have to watch their step or they could get an unwanted neck tie. But there realy isn't cynicism in the characters. The bad guys are rotten, but not cynical. They are ignorant in their decision to bring what they feel is justice. This is the opposite of cynical characters. Indeed, they are not cynicl enough, which is part of the cause of the problem.

So "Ox Bow Incident" is an emphatic "No!" 100% not film noir, and can't be construed that way because of the characters themselves. The characters are just too complex.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time
that's not funny!

reply

[deleted]

Some things that make Film Noir that are lacking here:

A femme fatale

A gumshoe, gangsters, heists, or jealousy/greed killings

An urban setting

a complex, convoluted plot

"For that day."
-Three Days of the Condor

reply

Hey, I've come up with the real answer for you! Are you still compiling your survey?

reply