MovieChat Forums > Air Force (1943) Discussion > Racism vs Propaganda vs War vs Evil

Racism vs Propaganda vs War vs Evil

posted 17 years ago by rockmail
15 replies | jump to latest

Okay, here's how it works people. Things can be evil, yet have a unavoidable purpose in certain circumstances. For simplicity's sake, let's define "evil" as an action that should NEVER be performed against your fellow man for whatever ethical or moral reason you choose to select.

Racism is evil and so is murder.

During war, (which is also evil by the way, but it happens anyway, the reasons for which is an entirely different discussion) we use racism and murder as some of the the tools to achieve a war's goals. Yes, we cloak the racism in the banner of "patriotism", and murder in the guise of "killing solders", but in the real world, the act is what counts, and our nomenclature does not change the reality.

So racism and murder are both STILL EVIL even in the context of war, but are unavoidable tools of war. Their "evilness" has NOT changed, we have simply entered into circumstances that demand their use - evil or not.

So guess what - a movie that portrays racism and murder is still portraying EVIL things - sorry war fans. BUT, war does demand the use of both in some circumstances - sorry pacifists. But war is evil in itself, so that doesn't justify the racism or the murder themselves, just the context in which they occur, IF there is an overwhelming reason for the war.

So you can be FOR a certain war and AGAINST racism and murder in general, or you can be AGAINST racism, murder, AND war for the trifecta. (Or I suppose you could be FOR racism and murder and against war, but that makes you a freak and you're not invited to my house for Thanksgiving, thank you very much!)

The trouble is, war is not neat and clean, and it's hard to hold back falling bombs with your principles. Yet, war is also not "inevitable" in many cases where it has been inititated - so much racism and murder occurs in the context of wars that should NOT have started in the first place.

Summary: Racism, Murder, War = Evil. But if you decide to have a war, it's hard to prosecute it without hurting feelings, killing people, and destroying property. That's the reason to avoid war in the first place.

Simple.

[–] einsteinfile 16 years ago

Yeah right, simple as pie! Are you kidding! Too bad the Japs started the war. It "hurt so many feelings", as it was, too! I guess we could have avoided the war instead of having it "decided" for us! They did that in Europe at the start of WWII. They surrendered - they "decided" not to have a war. Remember, over there civilians were then rounded up and exterminated, no matter that their now-occupied countries were no longer at "war". Hey, at least there was "peace". In that case "PEACE" = bad things. ooooh....these harsh words........ yeah right - really simple - simple-minded!

[–] rockmail 15 years ago

And you are another one who misses the point entirely yet again. I'm guessing that you have never had to fight in combat, as you are so boisterously in favor of war. Many veterans truly understand the horror that war is, while you apparently do not.

You are simply stating your emotions, and have not read what I have written. Please do so. READ IT. READ IT WELL.

War is not "good or bad" based on who started it or who finishes it. It is intrinsically bad no matter what. PERIOD.

Now is it NECESSARY on occasion? Sure.

My statement is not about whether one should engage or avoid war. The reasons and justification for war do not change the reality of what it is - WRONG.

Here's your TEST, see if you can determine the morality here:

- You are attacked by a mugger with a knife. You have a gun.

- You shoot that mugger, perhaps fatally.

In the sense of human morality, you are WRONG, and you SHOULD feel some remorse at taking a human life. If you do not, I feel sorry for you as you are missing out on the true delight in life in being a caring human.

In the sense of real world self-defense, you are totally justified in shooting that person to save yourself, as they initiated the attack.

It is the same feeling that responsible and caring police officers feel when they kill a perpetrator. There is stress and relief during the act, but afterward, many if not most officers feel very bad about having to take a human life.

It's NOT about whether you feel justified in fighting back against someone who has "wronged" you. It's about how YOUR OWN HUMANITY is diminished to your enemy's level when they force you to fight.

You may "win" the war, but you have lost a portion of your humanity that cannot be replaced.

And THAT is why war is always wrong.

[–] swat412 15 years ago

Ok, so the original post was about exactly what? 4 different subjects non-related?

[–] marbleann 16 years ago

This country has taken some sides with the some of the worst despots in the world. One other thing you fail to realize is war is not about hate. It has nothing to do with hate. War has everything to do with power and politics. That hate foolishness sounds like something Bush cooked up to get us to hate the Arabs But truth be told they don't really hate us, they just view us a people who want to take over their region of the world. Or they believe our religious beliefs are corrupted and are not in line with theirs. Most wars are over religion, which translates into power. People do not understand how one second two countries can be fighting like dogs and 1 year later we are all buddy buddy, Well because it was never about hate. The only evil is the politicians involved that lead the average person to think it is about hate when it is not.
Now how you equate this with racism lord only knows. Racism is based on a preconceived negative stereotype, War is based on what our leaders tell us who to hate. It is not emotional. Racism is a much stronger because even during WW2 and WW1 black soldiers were segregated and during WW2 they were treated worse then the Nazi's who were prisoners. And after the war the very people were fighting are now our friends and are readily able to assimilate into society. Where as black people who even fought in the war were treated the same way they were before they left. The preconceived stereotype vision of black people stayed the same, while enemy did not. Young men fight wars because they are forced to. Some politicians makes them. The US decides they want to fight a war the people in the Armed Service has no hand in picking who to fight. Racism is something no one is forced to feel.

[–] skiddoo 13 years ago

Good points by everyone on this thread.

War is also about fear and greed on the part of the people of the country. The old "what if they gave a war and nobody came" illustrates that the peoople have to cooperate or the leader is left without an army to lead. I disagree that most wars are about religion. Religion is a way to manipulate people into war. Most wars are about resources--land, colonies, oil, coal, ocean access....

War can be seen as an instrument of foreign policy or a failure of foreign policy.

War can be exceedingly emotional. When Bush went after the man who tried to kill his father, that showed how personal feelings of leaders can make a big difference. FDR wanted an African leader's country bombed in WWII because he hated the guy, but the Brits and Eisenhower took the chance of severe repercussions and ignored it because it had nothing to do with winning the war. Many Brits now think Dresden was fire-bombed as revenge for Coventry not for a compelling strategic purpose. If Hitler didn't hate the Jews, I don't know who does. And there are peoples who have held grudges against each other for centuries just hoping for a chance to get their own back the next time--look what happened in Yugoslavia the second the people were allowed to do what they pleased. WWII was the sequel because of the hatreds simmering from WWI. This instant forgive and forget stuff is very late 20th century.

Racism allows us to dehumanize the enemy and therefore make it okay for Joe and Jane Average to allow themselves to kill the devil. The Japanese did that to us and we did that to the Japanese. You may notice that we always say we fought the Nazis and the Japanese. We make sure to differentiate between good and bad Germans. We don't do that with the Japanese. In WWI, we showed the Brits as people like us and the Germans as bayonetting baby killers. Racism is a huge propaganda tool. It taps into our underlying fears about those who are different from us making it a lot easier to manipulate us.

I'm sorry to say that some people DO hate us. And some of us hate them. Some of them would be happy to see us destroyed and laugh while it is happening and some of us feel the same about them. And some people in the world will never come to terms with old enemies. Their visceral enmity will remain with them to the end of their days no matter what the government's policy might be.

[–] marbleann 13 years ago

I agree with most of what you said. Yes people do hate us and it usually because of propaganda and it goes both ways. I want to add something you touched on, we fought the Nazi's. It is funny how they never say we fought the Germans. I think if they did that I believe it makes them seem just like our next door neighbor ,Germans, which many Americans are. We have to demonize them more. So we called them Krauts or Nazi's. It is was like calling the Soviets, Communists, most of people who lived there was not in the party.
I did state that I believe most war is started because of religion. I should of said that is the reason they use. It is easier for us to feel as Christians we are fighting some evil non Christians. But I agree with you I think most wars are started for exactly what you stated resources, land etc. Or for other self serving reasons.
I believe one of the only reason we support Israel is because we need a ally in that part of the world. This country might be more anti Semitic then France was before WW2. The crazy Christians beleive Armageddon is coming and it will take place there so they can make sure all the Jewish people either die or turn into Christians. Very self serving reasons.

[–] starry-messenger 13 years ago

I'm confused. Didn't Japan murder and rape 10s of thousands of Chinese in Nanking. Didn't Japan attack Pearl Harbor? Didn't they force march U.S. and Filipino troops from Bataan 60 miles and kill many along the way? During the Bataan Death March the Japanese guards were singling out, brutalizing and murding redheaded solders. Isn't this racism? So the Japanese are excused for their war crimes against China, Korea, the Pilliplines, the U.S. the Netherlands, the U.K,, Austrailia and many others and the real evil is a Hollywood movie?

.

[–] marbleann 13 years ago

Who said that, not me. Nationalism is a big part of war and that usual is another nice word for people who feel they are supreme to the people they are conquering.

[–] shempzine 10 years ago

The film depicts Japanese immigrants on Maui attacking U.S. soldiers, which is pure bull. The year AIR FORCE was released was the same year the 442nd Infantry was formed -- all Japanese-Americans, mainly from Hawai'i. They would become the most decorated unit of WWII. Watch GO FOR BROKE instead of this.

Bite me, fanboy! -- Lobo

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] liscarkat-2 13 years ago

"if you decide to have a war, it's hard to prosecute it without hurting feelings, killing people, and destroying property. That's the reason to avoid war in the first place."

Well, Japan decided to have the war, not the U.S., and as far as avoiding war is concerned, when some idiots come thousands of miles to attack you and kill your citizens, it's kind of difficult to avoid fighting back.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sanookdee 11 years ago

I read an article about war and propaganda and the post war return to civilian life by the veterans. What we call PTSD today was know as shell shock or combat fatigue back then. Dehumanizing the enemy was a way of making it psychologically easier to kill the enemy. In the relativly smaller wars the US has been engaged in lately, there is an increase in PTSD and suicides. The Author pointed to the way the enemy is not dehumanized today as in yesteryear and the result is a higher percentage of PTSD cases.

[–] sanookdee 11 years ago

[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

Racism is evil and so is murder.

Agreed.

However despite the 1940 US census "color or race" choices (White/Negro/Indian/Chinese/Japanese/Filipino/Korean), the Japanese were/are not a race, they were/are a nationality or more accurately an ethnicity. For racism to properly come into play, the bias must be against a person due solely to their race. The Japanese would be properly classified as members of the Asian race, so for example they could not be properly considered as racists for hating the Chinese, just as Americans could not be properly considered as racists for hating the Japanese since Americans such as the AVG helped the Chinese before America's entry into the war.

Like death and taxes, war and murder are things that human history has proved to be inevitable.

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