Just a simple question: Since I watched the movie dubbed in German, there is no mentioning of the saboteurs being Nazis or Nazi sympathizers (this was common practice in German dubbing in the 50s and 60s; there was even a version of Casablanca without Nazis - if you can imagine this). Is there an explicit mentioning of the political persuasions of the villains in the original?
sharethats a good question. it seemed as if the group had their own agenda. they never singled out any country in particular, or spat out any propaganda.
shareAs pointed out in the "Memorable Quotes" section of this listing, Mr. Tobin tells the hero, Kane, "When you think about it, Mr. Kane, the competence of totalitarian nations is much higher than ours. They get things done."
shareTobin mentions fleeing the country and then planning to return if the Axis win the war.
shareExactly, they are clearly fascists. Especially considering the populist tone of the movie, with the downtrodden ordinary joes being honest and good and the elites being corrupt and conniving.
share> ...it seemed as if the group had their own agenda. they never singled out any
> country in particular
This may be reaching, but in the scene where Kane (Cummings) is being transported across the desert, the guys in the front seat are singing a popular tune... very badly. Many pop songs have been "created" by writing lyrics to accompany famous Classical works. The Song the mugs are singing uses the melody from a Tchaikovsky piano concerto. Tchaikovsky was, of course, the most popular of the ***Russian*** composers. A Hithcockian Hint? ...or am I just grasping for straws? Who knows. But Alfred didn't miss much in the way of plot details, and even "nothing" clues are often important. And this tune certainly seems to exist in the movie for NO OTHER reason, so the song's "Russian-ness" may be Hitchcock's (who was British) way of backing Churchill. It's the only "clue" I found as to the nationality of the bad guys' ideaology.
At the time of this movie (1942, middle of WWII), Russia was more-or-less our (I'm from the USA) Ally, but only in a "the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend" sort of way. Russia (or more succinctly, Stalin) already had gained a repuation as a "we'll have to eventually deal with them, but only AFTER we get together and whip the Nazis" kind of problem.
~Geronimo~
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
For god's sake,it is obvious that the bad guys in this film are backing nazi Germany.
Do they look like communists to you?,in any case the film was made in 1942,since June 22 1941 when Germany attacked Russia America and Britain were allies of Russia against nazi Germany.
Russia was not "more or less your ally" they were very much your ally.
The film is about the little people,even the freaks,standing together against fascism,it is not about communism which was not the threat that was being fought at the time.
The bad boss was going to Latin America,he was not going to communist Russia,he was obviously a fascist.
Do you know that the German-American bund filled Madison Square Garden with their supports shortly before World War 11?
What about Charles Lindbergh@s pro German rants?
German spies had already been arrested in America prior Germany declaring war on America which occured a couple of days after Pearl Harbor,which as an American I hope you don't need reminding was 7th December 1941.
I think the bad guys sing a popular song,and one bad guy talks about his children,to show that the enemy is not always obvious,they look like everybody else.
NOTE: With regard to the political affiliation of the saboteurs in this film, there are no direct references to Nazis or Nazism, although they could well be behind this murderous troop. Nor are there any obviously Germanic characters speaking English with heavy German accents.
In fact the behaviour of the saboteurs, especially the well-bred types at the party in the NYC sequence toward the end, seems to indicate that they are instead, Anarchists.
As Towbin leaves he refers to returning if the Axis powers win. This is as close as it gets but it's still not proof that they're Nazis.
I'm certain Hitchcock decided to keep their affiliation deliberately vague for political as well as financial reasons. Just my opinion.
The song mentioned above is "Tonight We Love," and could be nothing more than a black joke considering the circumstances. Sort of like Robert Walker gallantly walking a blind man across the street moments before strangling the woman at the amusement park in "Strangers On A Train."
'We're not in Medford now. We're in a hurry.'
GunsInNavarone - Are you joking?
"Anarchism is a political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which consider the state, as compulsory government, to be unnecessary, harmful, and/or undesirable, and favors the absence of the state (anarchy)."
Pretty much the opposite of totalitarianism and/or rich socialites.
No they are Islamofascists.
shareNo they are brudda mans who be working dat registratun line for Huessain Obama..
shareDon't know what "brudda mans" are, but apparently they were successful. Hope that you are miserable the entire 4-8 years of Obama's administration. Good luck with that!
shareI watched it last night and i saw 2 indicators of who they worked for
the first is a round about way- in the truck with the friendly driver Barry sings the first few notes of Beethoven' 5th symphony which is th morse letter for V. V for Victory during WW2 was a common saying
and 2 Tobin's group although seems to be self serving,Tobin says" the competence of totalitarian nations is much higher than ours. They get things done." indicating thats what they prefered
Oh GOOD!,my dog found the chainsaw
My take is that they (or at least those at the top) were amoral opportunists who did not have any particular political or ideological affiliation. Based on historical context, they were clearly being PAID by the Axis powers, but I don't think that is because they were necessarily Nazis. They considered themselves superior beings and they did not like all this egalitarian democracy stuff that kept them from untrammelled exploitation of the common man. That is why totalitarian regimes are superior - they order the society better and allow for scum like this troop to do their bloodsucking. Just a hunch, as the film does not give you all that much to go on.
shareI think this guy hit the nail on the head.
Facts need to come before certainty.
Mark-1589, I think you're spot on.
They're all wealthy people who are involved, people who are greedy and want more.
Ironic, because we're seeing this today.
Bingo, jac91604 - it's no coincidence that Kochs' father or grandfather did business with the Third Reich.
shareBecause today the "they" you speak of are fascists!
share[deleted]
ChemicalDaliGuy: Very poor argument. Germans weren't Our only enemies.
In any case: Besides the blatant mentions of fascism and so forth which people have mentioned already, at the beginning of the film, after Fry bumps into Kane and his friend, Kane says something to the effect, "Look at that. A little blond stands in the way of national security."
Unfortunately IMDB is so pathetic I cannot look up the quote. It's no mistake "little blond" is mentioned opposed to another appellation. This quote is what some call "theme stated." The "little blonde," Germany and her cohorts, shouldn't stand in the way of big bad America. Although the saboteurs are not unmistakably "German," that doesn't rule out the possibility that they are Nazi sympathizers.
What complicates matters is quotes, such as this: "You're one of the ardent believers - a good American. Oh, there are millions like you. People who play along, without asking questions. I hate to use the word stupid, but it seems to be the only one that applies. The great masses, the moron millions. Well, there are a few of us unwilling to troop along... a few of us who are clever enough to see that there's much more to be done than just live small complacent lives, a few of us in america who desire a more profitable type of government."
On the one hand, Tobin is taking a direct shot at America which probably applies to America now more than ever. However, the "great masses, the moron millions" applies easily as well to the herd mentality of the Nazis.
They just wanted to make America great again.
~.~
There were three of us in this marriage
http://www.imdb.com/list/ze4EduNaQ-s/