MovieChat Forums > Holiday Inn (1942) Discussion > Don't watch Holiday Inn on AMC!

Don't watch Holiday Inn on AMC!


Decided to watch Holiday Inn last night for perhaps the 25th time when I saw it listed on the AMC channel. They completely cut out a section of the movie when they do "Abraham" (Lincoln's birthday) in blackface! One scene shows Bing Crosby applying black makeup to Marjorie Reynolds face and the next minute (after a commercial) he's asking Fred Astaire if he liked the blackface routine. Apparently AMC thinks that some people might be offended by the minstrel singing and dancing act. I hate it when they decide what I should see! I will never watch another movie on this channel. It's bad enough that they chop it up with commercials but don't mess with the content. I'll buy it on DVD.

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The thing of it is, if this one person or those hundred people are offended, it isn't a majority. Get a lawyer into the act and it is just easier in the long run for the distributor to remove anything that may be misconstrued as insulting.

But there is nothing to say that this subject matter will automatically offend. Black people are just as aware of this history as white people, so it isn't like white people will go 'gee, that was a wonderful musical number' totally oblivious to what the implications are.

Blacks would also wear blackface, if they were light-skinned or to exaggerate, which is what the minstrel makeup did.

Garrison Keillor told of a Mexican in an all-black band who wore black face because there would be problems to see a non-black performing with blacks, apparently segregation was that intense. Or maybe they could have been ground-breakers and anyone who was there to just hear music wouldn't have cared.

Cartoon Network would cut out all the blackface images in Tom & Jerry cartoons and Warner Bros., which again is unfortunate. I would think they could at least run them with a warning if someone is going to find them insulting, but at least show them intact.

I guess a warning would be unheard of on a Christmas movie, but what the hey, Christmas in and of itself is becoming offensive as well, so that will be that.

And I'm watching Holiday Inn from AMC now. I recorded it.

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I'm a Jewish lesbian athiest residing in this country on a work visa. Next year I want AMC to also remove the Christmas, St. Valentine's, Fourth of July, and Washington's Birthday numbers from this movie. I'm also a feminist so the opening song just won't do either. It's very sexist.

What's next?? Book burnings??!!!

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The blackface scene should definetly be deleted from TV or anywhere else for that matter. I don't care if its a part of history or not. Also, if you want to watch the scene, go to your local video store and buy the DVD.

I always tell the truth even when I lie-Tony Montana (Scarface)

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"The blackface scene should definetly be deleted from TV or anywhere else for that matter. I don't care if its a part of history or not."

Da, comrade! Shoot the racist imperialist running dogs who insist on seeing the films as they were originally made!

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[deleted]

and painting Al Pacino for the part of Scarface wasn't the exact same thing?

said the shotgun to the head
-Saul Williams

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Yeah, that's real good. Delete anything from history that you don't like. History is history, whether you like it or not. You can't rewrite history just because there's something in it you don't like. Give me a break! History is full of things both good and bad, but it is the combination of both of those that defines a nation. You can't have only one side without the other. Every coin has two sides to it, and so does history. Have you ever heard of a one-sided coin?

Do what most intelligent, logical people do: if you don't like something, don't watch it!



"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Heinlein




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Amen to that, n0jaa!!!!!!!!!!

~^*Angel Of Rock*^~

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Taking the black face scene out of this movie wasn't mere censorship. It's worse. It's trying to revise history! It's like trying to pretend that things were never that bad. To all those who are offended when they see scenes like that, please try to put it into perspective. Leaving scenes like that IN, reminds us of how far we've come and how far we must yet go as a nation. If you cut any reference to how different things were back then, it is a lie.

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Actually, its on On Demand in full form right now, if anybody cares. :-) I recorded it!

That scene about Abraham has my favorite music in the entire film. I know I will be yelled at for saying this, but I love Mamie (and staff). The kids make me laugh every time, they are adorable, and Mamie's line, "Is your name..." and the kids "no!" is often quoted at our house. Its just so cute!

I am in an interracial relationship, and it was not offensive to us because it was just historical and normal during the time period. I wasn't born in that time period, and I can't change history. I am entertained by great acting, not by the color of the people in that number or any other. At the time it was not considered insensitive to do those types of things. In the end, it is purely entertainment, and does not reflect on how I see and treat people (especially since I, and my boyfriend are both mixed!)

I agree, cutting films (as well as colorizing films, but that is another subject!) is TERRIBLE! :-P

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In fact, it can be offensive in more ways than one to chop up these films.

I remember watching one film that happened to be on one morning - I can't remember the name, I'm sure it was some iconic film that someone else will easily remember - but it was the famous scene where a race riot starts inside of the prison. The riot is sparked by a white prisoner yelling at a black prisoner, "You N***ER!!!" Then the black prisoner violently retaliates, and the riot starts.

Well, whatever genius channel showed this movie, they chose to show it with the line re-dubbed as "You...BLACK!!" So now, you have the black prisoner reacting angrily and violently at being called a word that, at the time of the movie showing, anyway, was not a pejorative - which seems irrational and offensive to me.

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I agree Nojaa. I'm sick and tired of pussyfooting around all these people who don't like this or don't like that or this shouldn't be shown or that should be deleted. YOU DON'T LIKE IT........DON'T WATCH IT. This is how the movie was made. All these concessions made for people who complain that this movie is too violent or it has black face or it doesn't have enough of this or it has too much of that. Frankly, I'm tired of having to "accommodate" people for these things (and others). Time to get over it people. Nojaa is right.......you can't change history.

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In your IMDB profile, in your likes and dislikes, it states....I like "Some of Lil Wayne's *beep*

Now I see what we are dealing with when it comes to you...your comments make sense now.

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The fact that you put both "Jewish" and "atheist" as descriptors for the same person (i.e. yourself, in your thinly veiled sarcastic scenario) makes you look stupid. Had you said "a non-practicing Jewish descendant who is an atheist", I could buy it, although it still wouldn't have been that funny. Otherwise, look up the meaning of both Jewish and atheist.

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I have stopped watching ANYTHING on AMC! I am tired of seeing more commmercials than movies! I tried to watch Holiday Inn and make note of the starting and ending times, noticed several parts that were cut from the original and the time given for the showing (1 1/2 hours) was way off. The movie ended earlier than the time allowed, and with the scenes cut out, made no sense in places. Since AMC decided they needed all of the extra time for commercials and self-promotion, I decided they didn't need me.

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[deleted]

I don't think it's an issue of race so much as it is an issue of not getting an entire movie's content. For example, I hate it when mainstream networks censor movies or cut them, no matter what it is that is cut. I think a filmmaker should have the right to have his or her film shown in its entirety. And if he or she can't, then the film shouldn't be shown at all. So if AMC judged Holiday Inn too offensive, then they shouldn't have shown it at all. But that's just my opinion: it's all or nothing. I don't want half a film.

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Get over it, diamondSocuteonMe. You're just going to have to learn how to tolerate it. My people have been persecuted for thousands of years and I can't remember the last time I've been offended. I like how you said "WHITE PEOPLE DEM DAYS WERE IGNORANT...". Could that statement have been anymore ironic? I guess ALL white people were dumb racists, eh? Go bitch somewhere else.

By the way, what did you think of the recent film "White Chicks?"

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I am a black female (AKA African American to be PC) and, yes, I do find 'blackface' to be offensive. But, this is an integral part of our cinematic history. It teaches us how to learn from our past and our children should develop an understanding from such situations.

I didn't care to see "White Chicks" because it seemed very tacky, but I may watch it someday. The stereotypical 'Caucasian girl' differs greatly in history from the stereotype of a black male from the early 20th Century, so when I watch "White Chicks" I wouldn't perceive it fairly. -- Just trying to be honest.
If I can stand watching idiots run around the screen as 'White Chicks' I may attempt it. -- Not a big Marlon and Sean fan -- Sorry guys. I prefer more classic performances and performers.

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Njae, cinematic history or not its still racist. I mean was so cinematic in watching Bing Crosby with burnt cork blackface on him pretending to be a black person.

I buried those cockaroaches Tony Montana (Scarface)

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[deleted]

AMEN neptunewanter well said.my grandfather was a silent movie actor many yrs ago and had his face painted black in 3 of his movie s.and like you said if poeple find this a problem then change the channell.i know lousy spelling .this is history and if anyone says delete this or that well lol its just not going to happen.great movie i loved alll parts.oh by the way what ladyjayhawk says is retarded.ok fine your gay but i really dont think there going to change a classic cause your gay so get used to it

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I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. I too noticed the absence of that scene the last time I saw it on AMC and was not really surprised when I gave it a little thought.
However, diamondSocuteonMe, try typing your words the way they're supposed to spelled and not in slang, and maybe you won't be perpetuating the very stereotypes that almost made you cry when you saw the movie.

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Did you not notice that they were doing the blackface routine talking about how great Abraham Lincoln was in abolishing slavery? It seems more racist to me that it be removed, because then you're removing the message about how slavery was horrible and the work that Lincoln did to end it. We can't end racism today by just ignoring the fact that it ever existed. Yes people back then were ignorant, yes people today are ignorant, but intentionally racist? I doubt it. Accept the movie for what it is, and move on with your life.

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This channel censors practically all the movies it shows. I remember seeing a heavily cut version of "The Untouchables". One scene in particular involved a bludgeoning with a baseball bat at a dinner party. In the way I originally saw it, the violence and gore was much more graphic. If this channel has a problem with showing movies in their original form, then they should consider not showing them at all. They also heavily censored "Scarface".

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Here's a thought, if AMC keeps on the way it is going and people email the station before they stop watching altogether and tell them why they are boycotting them, they will start to get the message. After a while their income will dry up and they might start thinking about why this happened but sadly for them, it will be too late. If I was in charge of the station I would change the censorship policy immediately before I was out of a job.
If people feel that strongly about this why not get a petition going on petitionsonline.com

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[deleted]

the commentary talks about the blackface issue. Crosby was one of the first top white singers to perform with top black bands so he was not racist. I think the Lincloln song was actually suppose to be a tribute. At the time it was not seen as offensive. The Minstral Show, and it was a black music, and it was apparently a very powerful artistic influence on white American Music. Many whites first heard and saw black performers in these blackface minstral shows and were wowed by it. Minstral Shows dominated music for decades even as the actual Minstral Shows vanished. It was such a powerful artistic influence that White Christmas as a Minstral Show number in 1956 --- but now minus the blackface. It simply took that long for music to realize blackface now implied racism when before, it was seen as a genuine homage to the first black minstral singers who became national stars. And these firt black singers performed in minstral shows and top Broadway shows in blackface. So blackface is a paradox. PS: Astare performed in blackface for his homage to Bojangles who probably at some points in his life performed in blackface.

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the commentary talks about the blackface issue. Crosby was one of the first top white singers to perform with top black bands so he was not racist. I think the Lincloln song was actually suppose to be a tribute. At the time it was not seen as offensive. The Minstral Show, and it was a black music, and it was apparently a very powerful artistic influence on white American Music. Many whites first heard and saw black performers in these blackface minstral shows and were wowed by it. Minstral Shows dominated music for decades even as the actual Minstral Shows vanished. It was such a powerful artistic influence that White Christmas as a Minstral Show number in 1956 --- but now minus the blackface. It simply took that long for music to realize blackface now implied racism when before, it was seen as a genuine homage to the first black minstral singers who became national stars. And these firt black singers performed in minstral shows and top Broadway shows in blackface. So blackface is a paradox. PS: Astare performed in blackface for his homage to Bojangles who probably at some points in his life performed in blackface.


Whether or not someone was offended by it is another issue; and subjective btw. However, it's pretty obvious the number was a tribute, there's no doubt about that. It's not mocking African Americans, but rather giving an account of the events during Lincoln's presidency. It's just tells a story. One with a happy ending I might add.

For my latest movie reviews and news:http://www.hesaidshesaidreviewsite.com/

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As a person of color, I have to admit that while I am not crazy about watching blackface, I am a big fan of movies particularly classics from the 1930's and 1940's though and so I put it in perspective, and would rather see the movie as it was made.

I especially don't think that it should be cut out of a movie like Holiday Inn because it is actually done as part of the plot in this movie which I thought it was interesting that no one pointed out because I could see it being removed from a movie where it didn't advance the plot.

Someone mentioned cartoons and I think they are another story because children are very drawn to cartoons whether they are made for them or not and I think that exposing them to blackface without the right parental guidance could be extremely damaging.

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tabathainc, I also noticed that it was part of the plot in the movie even though I have to say I've watched and loved this movie for many years, and that scene has always made me cringe. I was watching it on DVD the other night with my 13 year old daughter, and she asked why they were putting black paint on their face and thought it was weird. I told her about how many years ago people sometimes did that while performing certain types of music, to appear like a black person. She was quite surprised and I told her that I thought it was offense and today it is considered offensive to do that. She totally agreed. She said that things really have changed. I guess it's a good thing that young people feel that this kind of thing is unacceptable and that they feel the world is a different place for all of us today. I would really have a problem with the movie if it wasn't stated that they(the performers) had agreed not to do the blackface, but Jim insisted because he was just desperate to try not to have Linda noticed by his two friends. That plot point at least makes some sense as to why we see this kind of thing.

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While is does greatly disappoint me that AMC takes liberty editing classic films and inserting (endless) commercials, I still watch their movies (because my cable system doesn't carry TCM, which I strongly prefer). Holiday Inn is absolutely my favorite Christmas movie and my favorite musical, and as a matter of fact, I'm showing it in my Motion Picture History and Criticism class tomorrow night as my musical for the semester.

That being said, I've been worried about showing the film unedited to a large group of college freshmen and sophomores. I've showed films with adult language and fairly mild sexual content, but this blackface scene scares me more than any of that. I've considred fast-forwarding through that number, because I know it seriously crosses the line (er, left the line waaaayyyy back there somewhere), but since it's a film history class, I feel it's important to show films unedited. I've just about decided to show the film in its entirety and preface it with a massive disclaimer. It's a real dilemma.

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If you are teaching a film history class I'm surprised you are having that hard of a time deciding to show it. That is an important part of history. Bamboozled has an interesting perspective on the entire issue. Personally I think people are way too easily offended & should just grow up & get over it.

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You'd be doing the students in your class no favors by not showing the ABRAHAM number to them. It was a part of our history and the history of entertainment, just as men playing female parts was. Enough with sparing too easily offended feelings and this political correctness. Show them life as it really was. They need to grow up! Not to mention that the song is yet another Irving Berlin goodie. If you really want to offend them point out the double meaning of the song--Abraham Lincoln and the Biblical patriarch--oooooh how scandalous!!

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I don't think you should worry about it that much. Anyone who ever saw this film in the past saw that scene. It should be noted that the reason why Bing put the blackface on himself and Linda was to hide her face from Astaire. It's an integral part of the plot.

Personally, I think that the fear of not being politically correct is becoming ridiculous in this society, not just in terms of the use of blackface in a 60 year old film being racist. Recent rants and feuds from Rosie O'Donnell is a case in point. She went on a huge tirade when Kelly Ripa told Clay Aiken not to put his hand on her mouth as she didn't know where it had been. Rosie decided that was a homophobic statement. It's high time that we learned to be reasonable about things, not more and more uptight.

I don't suspect that the black actors who appeared in Holiday Inn thought the use of blackface was offensive. It wasn't considered so at the time the film was made. To edit a film and remove a plot device, leaving the viewer hanging, is just ridiculous. As others have stated, in the context of the film, it is needed to explain the next scene.

One thing vampire children have to learn early on is don't run with a wooden stake

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any old movie from the old days can be racist.
i mean come on, every actor, including just stand ins and extras are all white people. if they really want to get serious about it, then think about it.
if you would just watch old movies then 99.99% of the time you are going to be watching an all white cast!

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