MovieChat Forums > Flying Tigers (1942) Discussion > President Truman's declaration of War ??...

President Truman's declaration of War ????


One of the supposed Critic's listed above stated that is was President Harry Truman who declared War on Japan in 1941 following the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Doesn't any one of these so called EXPERTS ever do any RESEARCH ???
I could have sworn it was ABRAHAM LINCOLN.......

LOLOLOL


Another critic emphasized that the Flying Tigers were Mercenaries! Maybe so but a lot of them volunteered for the job after hearing of the awful atrocities
commited against Chinese Civilians by the Japanese Military.


Cheval 52

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[deleted]

It is interesting that Americans would volunteer and fight for the white British in the RAF against the white Germans and not expect to be paid any more than a regular British pilot, but Americans had to be offered a finicial incentive to volunteer and fight for the yellow Chinese against the yellow Japanese. Blatant racism? Maybe. Or just the mind-set of Americans?
Let me clarify my statement: I don't think white Americans so much needed a financial incentive to fight the Japanese. But they did need more of a financial incentive to fight FOR the Chinese than they did for the white British. A sort of back handed racism.

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What an ignorant statement.

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I don't mind you saying that mine was an ignorant statement, but excuse my ignorance, why do you say that?
No, actually I do mind you saying that mine was an ignorant statement. I am entitled to my opinion and you can ki$$ my a$$.

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First of all, please keep in mind that "The Flying Tigers" was a wartime movie, made for purposes of entertainment and propaganda, and that the filmmakers were not especially concerned with historical accuracy. I read somewhere several years ago that the film was actually suggested to Republic Pictures by a couple of former employees of the American Volunteer Group (AVG, the formal name of "The Flying Tigers" fighter group) who had left their employment long before the AVG was officially disbanded in July 1942.

(See http://www.warbirdforum.com/movies.htm , a website about the AVG, which states that two "dishonorably discharged" AVG clerks had something to do with this film. Those two clerks were Lawrence Moore and Kenneth Sanger, who are listed in the "Trivia" section of this film's IMDB listing as uncredited technical advisors. See also http://www.warbirdforum.com/roster.htm, for an AVG roster listing Moore and Sanger, and Daniel Ford's book, "The Flying Tigers," which states that Moore and Sanger were fired from the film after representatives of the AVG complained to Republic Pictures.)

No doubt much of the popular mythology and persistent inaccuracies regarding the AVG originated from this movie. Among the misconceptions is that the AVG was a "mercenary" organization. Technically, yes, the AVG pilots and ground crew were well-paid for their service to the Chinese government. But the term "mercenary" implies that these men were professional soldiers fighting essentially for money.

The AVG was recruited in the spring and summer of 1941, largely from personnel of the U.S. Army, Navy and Marine Corps. By that time, it was evident to most people in the U.S. military institutions that the United States would be at war with Japan and/or Germany within a few months, and no doubt many of these men joined the AVG because they hoped to get into combat as soon as possible. Some may have been motivated by a desire to help the Chinese or a dislike of the Japanese, but I suspect that sheer professional interest and enthusiasm was the chief factor in their enlistment in the AVG. The U.S. government encouraged their enlistment by promising that they would be permitted to return to U.S. military service (presumably, after the United States entered the war) with no loss of rank, seniority, or benefits (a promise that was not always honored after the AVG disbanded in July 1942). In some ways, the AVG was a "covert operation" of the United States government, directed against Japan before the United States formally declared war.

The Americans who joined the British RAF and Canadian RCAF prior to Pearl Harbor had been civilians, not active duty U.S. military men, and they did not have the encouragement/cooperation from the U.S. government that the Flying Tigers received. I suggest that service in the RAF/RCAF also was viewed by some as a better deal than service in the AVG, whatever the pay, because China was seen as a remote and rather primitive country when compared to Britain, where most of the American volunteers were posted with the RAF. The Americans who joined the RAF and RCAF were trained, literally, from the ground up and didn't expect or receive any special treatment. The AVG, on the other hand, was hiring veteran aviators and ground crew and paying them well to live and fight against a skilled Japanese enemy, in a difficult environment that had severely hampered previous efforts to develop an effective Chinese air force.

What any of this has to do with racism is puzzling. Japan had attacked China in 1937, and by 1941 most Americans thoroughly sympathized with the Chinese and largely distrusted Japan. From 1939 on, most Americans had sympathized with, if not outrightly supported, the British in their war with Nazi Germany. The fact that American pilots were paid more to fly and fight for China than for Britain had nothing to do with race and everything to do with the relative difficulties of establishing an effective air force in China. The Chinese and their U.S. government allies realized that attracting veteran pilots to the AVG would be easier by offering high salaries; but I suggest that if active duty U.S. aviators had been offered an opportunity to join the RAF in the summer of 1941 (and knew that they eventually could return to U.S. service at the same rank, seniority, etc.), there would have been just as many volunteers, if not more.

If Americans were so racist in their desire to kill "yellow Japanese" rather than "white Germans," it seems that they would have been willing to take LESS money to do so, instead of the other way around. In reality, I'm sure the money the AVG members earned was welcome, but in most cases it had little to do with their choice to volunteer. The people who made this film focused on the unofficial $500 "bounty" (paid to AVG pilots for each Japanese plane shot down) as a plot device to demonstrate Woody Jason's (John Carroll) initial venality, only so he can come around by the end of the film to realize that the war is really about saving China. But don't confuse the movie's characters (including John Wayne's) with the actual AVG.

Look at the "Warbirds" AVG website (http://www.warbirdforum.com/avg.htm), or read Daniel Ford's definitive book, "The Flying Tigers," updated and republished in 2007, for accurate info on the AVG.

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The men (and woman) of the AVG had numerous reasons for signing up, but no doubt most of them found the generous pay attractive. I read that Greg "Pappy" Boyington (later of Black Sheep fame) volunteered because he couldn't afford his alimony payments (and continue to maintain himself in the lifestyle to which he had become accustomed) on his salary from Uncle Sam.

I think the Flying Tigers' story is way past due for decent movie treatment. This John Wayne vehicle has practically nothing to do with the real AVG. Daniel Ford's book would be an excellent basic source.

Imagine Robert Mitchum (perhaps) doing voice over at the end of the recruitment period (Chapter 1) (just before the opening credits of a movie):

"Good, bad, and indifferent; mercenaries and idealists .... some eager to fight, some wanting only to escape from uniform - 100 U.S. military pilots signed contracts in the summer of 1941. Those who survived the training regimen would serve a country they knew little about, in a conflict they understood not at all. Inside a year, they would be America's darlings, and arguably the most famous combat force this country has ever produced."

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I haven't read it yet, but I'm wondering if Olga Greenlaw's book, "The Lady and the Tigers," wouldn't make a good basis for an updated (and historically accurate) AVG film. Check out the photos on the book's amazon.com page -- Olga was a major babe! She was married to an AVG staff officer but there has been much speculation that she got around quite a bit with the likes of Greg Boyington, and maybe others in the AVG. Imagine being an attractive young woman (one of the few American females around) surrounded by all that aviation-grade testosterone! (Daniel Ford has edited a new edition of her book, and you can read about it and Olga at http://www.warbirdforum.com/greenlaw.htm).

Ford, who wrote the definitive history on the Flying Tigers, also has written a novel about them, entitled "Remains" (also listed on amazon.com). That also might make the basis for such a film, and it has the virtue of being fiction, although one of the characters is apparently based on Boyington. But a novel allows a little more creative liberty to the filmmakers, perhaps, although they're still likely to screw it up (can you say "Pearl Harbor?").

So, who should play Olga and who should play the REAL Boyington (who was not exactly male model material)? (Robert Conrad -- much too handsome, in a conventional sense.) And would they have to rely exclusively on CGI to come up with some P-40B/Cs? From what I can find on the internet, there may be only three or four of these early-model P-40s still in existence, much less in condition to fly.

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About the Tigers being 'mercenaries'. Another point would be that air bases in China were remote and living conditions were miserable. Even if you got leave there was hardly anyplace to go.

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Gator it's a fairly late reply but I have read Ford's book & greatly enjoyed the story as he relayed it in a logical & historical light---IF I recall, more than a few of the AVG pilots(particularly some of the older ones!) decided to turn in their wings & forgo that $500 bounty after their first few combat experiences against the Imperial Army Airforce;

Interesting thing: I found Ford's book a very entertaining read & pretty accurate historically; it's a very different 'style' of book than say the 'Bloody Shambles' series written by Chris Shores---who is ANOTHER terrific historical writer;

NM

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Oh Jeeeeeze~ Does EVERYTHING have to have a race-card play? Get a grip and quit whining about race this and race that. We're ALL tired of it!!!

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Unfortunately, if you're going to have a serious analysis of history, you can't do so without looking at the often-present role of racism. Just because you're "tired of it!!!" does not mean it was not a significant part of whatever events are being discussed.

I don't know what motivated the men who volunteered in the summer of 1941 to go to China and fight against Japan before Pearl Harbor. I'm sure it was a variety of reasons for the variety of men. But I would argue that for many people- maybe even members of the AVG by that point- racism was a motivator for them to kill Japanese after Pearl Harbor. Sorry that I can't cite these sources, but these are some of the real things I've learned over the years that people said and believed after the Pearl Harbor attack:

-In an interview for a 1995 CBS documentary commemorating the 50th anniversary of the end of WWII, a man said that when Pearl Harbor happened, he "became, instantly, a hater of all Japanese." He lied about his age (he was 14) and enlisted in the Marines and fought at Iwo Jima. In his last comment on the program and speaking for his modern views, he referred to the Japanese as "those little people." Perhaps this is no different than Harry Reid's referring to President Obama as "light-skinned," i.e. a comment on the obvious; but it's also obvious the vet in the program was a racist and showed no remorse for his bigotry.

-In Ken Burns' documentary "The War," Glenn Frazier, Army survivor of the Bataan Death March and over three years of prisoner-of-war camp, stated that he hated the Japanese from the moment a close friend of his was killed in the Japanese air attack on the Phillipines after Pearl Harbor. He claimed he went hunting for them and if he didn't kill at least one Japanese every day, he didn't do his job. I think he did finally let go of his hatred, however.

-I saw an old picture in a Time-Life book once that showed a sign on somebody's house. It said, "Japs Keep Moving. This is a White Man's Neighborhood."

-I could never tell you the name or anything else about the movie, but once I saw a minute or two of a wartime film. In the scene, I recruiting officer asks the men why they enlisted. One of them put it plain and simple: "I just don't like Japs."

-Popular media during the war- including kids' comic books- portayed Japanese as ugly, buck-toothed, slanty-eyed, sneaky barbarians. Sometimes they were shown as rats with tails. Furthermore, it's a lot easier for one man to kill another if he sees him as a soulless animal that deserves to be killed.

You have to remember that many Americans were outraged that a foreign, non-white people attacked us without any warning. Of course, many people responded to it with racial hatred, especially in a time before voices like Martin Luther King, Jr., Bobby Kennedy and the Civil Rights movement. Racial hatred against the Japanese was virtually unrestrained.

One of my professors in college told me that "history is not there to make people happy." Again, I don't know about the race issue in every discussion of history, but I also know that just because you don't want to hear about it does not mean somebody else is "whining and complaining."



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Well said, RI4534. The OP seems fixated on race, and it's a bore.

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As I recall, a number of the AVG volunteers were not pursuit pilots in the United States [Air Corps, Naval Aviation and Marines]. Here was an opportunity for many of them to become fighter pilots (something they missed in the selection process during their advanced flying training). While the volunteers were guarenteed safe military return, there were hints within their respective services that the "network" might forget them. The fact that these fellows would be drawing big salaries and bounties of 500 dollars in gold for each confirmed enemy aircraft destroyed (the Chinese had a very stringent confirmation process) did not sit well with the American military and naval status quo upon their departure. You have to remember - these men were members [and products] of the pre-Pearl Harbor armed services. And those services were very conservative and very traditional (what you might call hide-bound). Claire L. Chennault was against the idea initially because he did not believe in stop gap measures, but the Chinese Generalissimo knew that his people were dying and needed professional help. So an appeal was made to the United States through President Roosevelt. Did you know that when American military pursuit pilots were approached, most balked for fear of ruining their careers; hence the intake of non-pursuit pilots. Yes, the film Flying Tigers is an inaccurate movie, but as mentioned elsewhere, it was largely a propaganda film (at the time of release we were losing the war). The first time I saw this film as an adult, I thought it was a lot of baloney. Now I see it as a wonderful film for a rainy afternoon and grow to love it more each time I see it.

- JKHolman

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