MovieChat Forums > They Died with Their Boots On (1942) Discussion > Hey Joe

Hey Joe

posted 16 years ago by lambrettaguy200
4 replies | jump to latest

I love the film as an entertainment, it's so endearing, but of course as everyone here is saying, so much is factually wrong with the story.

A couple more little items to add to the list (sorry) - I thought the 7th US Cavalry was mustered in during 1866, but not in Fort Lincoln. I thought it was Fort Riley, Kansas or somewhere like that. Weren't the 7th first ranged against the Kiowa and the scene where he dictated a treaty wasn't with Crazy Horse but with Kiowa chiefs (perhaps Satanta ?). And where was the tale of Black Kettle and the *W a s h i t a* ?

As for California Joe, he really existed but as I understand it, not as a Custer scout. I seem to recall the real California Joe was an eagle-eyed sharpshooter in the Union Army (USSS ?) who became well-known at Gettysburg. I still recall a photo of him, with long hair, long dark beard and moustache, sternly-arched eyebrows and a very sharp look in his eyes.

I think Mitch Bouyer was the Custer scout who led the Indian scouts on the 1876 campaign.

We Are The Mods ! We Are The Mods ! We Are - We Are - We Are The Mods ! (Quadrophenia)

[–] mike-foxton4 16 years ago

Much of what you say is correct. The 7th cavalry indeed began at Fort Riley in 1866, under the command of Colonel Andrew J Smith, with Lieutanant Colonel Custer as second in command.
California Joe was Custer's chief of scouts but only until 1875. He was not present at The Little Big Horn. Chief of scouts was Charley Reynolds, but he was with Major Reno's command and died covering the retreat following the failed charge on the Indian camp.
I have seen a painting of Custer negotiating with indians, but cannot recall which tribe.
The W a s h i t a episode is certainly not in this film, simply adding to the many other historical inaccuracies.
A fine film nonetheless.

"I'll trouble you for your sabre, Captain".

[–] El_Crab 15 years ago

The painting you are speaking of is Custer's Demand(s). Its based on real events, when Custer chose to speak with the Cheyennes (and I believe Kiowas were there was well), rather than attack.

Custer has been portrayed so inaccurately, both ways. More recently, as essentially the poster boy for Native American genocide. When in reality, Custer was just a soldier carrying out failing and failed policies established by the government, and was actually a sympathizer of the Indian at times.

And while he's only remembered for his final battle, he was a winner up to that point. And had already established himself as one of the most famous soldiers in American History.

I pinch. I want to pinch. Why no pinch? Maybe little pinch?

[–] magolding 13 years ago

That was probably with Southern Cheyenne in 1869 after the *beep* campaign.

The Cheyenne tell a story what during negotiations a medicine man put a curse on Custer that he and all his men would die if he ever attacked them again, and that is why he lost at the Little Big Horn.

But as I remember most of the Southern Cheyenne broke out again after that, taking part in the Red River War of 1874-1875 band then returned to their reservation. Which probably invalidated teh curse which had been based on the conditinof peace ten prevailing. And there were only a few Southern Cheyenne at the Little Big Horn, visiting their relatives the Northern Cheyenne who happened to be the allies of the Sioux who were Custer's targets,and hundreds of miles away from the reservation they were supposed to be in. Custer probably had no idead there were any Southern Cheyenne within two hundred miles of the Little Big Horn.

So it would have been a very unfair curse that would have activated against Custer in those circumstances.

[–] magolding-94772 7 years ago

lambrettaguy200 wrote:

...I seem to recall the real California Joe was an eagle-eyed sharpshooter in the Union Army (USSS ?) who became well-known at Gettysburg...

The standing or regular army of the United States is officially the United States Army abbreviated USA. During World War II the Army of the United States contained millions of draftees and was a much larger organization than the United States Army.

During the Civil War most of the union soldiers belonged to various state raised units of United States Volunteers. So the abbreviation you are looking for is is not USSS but USV for United States Volunteers.

And yes California Joe was a scout for Custer for a period. During major Indian campaigns a number of white scouts would be recruited, and often a lot of Indian scouts from non hostile tribes.