MovieChat Forums > Sullivan's Travels (1942) Discussion > We forgive so much in these old films

We forgive so much in these old films

posted 11 years ago by starmarker
17 replies | jump to latest

I've watched a number of classic movies lately. Mostly on TCM. "The Lady Eve", "Palm Beach Story", and "Sullivan's Travels" were in the mix. I won't get into all the details. Each had some wonderful elements and some fantastic dialogue. But, if you're looking for plots that actually make sense, better forget it. My point is, whether it's these films, or other movies I've seen lately ("Gilda" and "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes") you might find yourself thinking at some point "I'm enjoying this movie, but it's pretty terrible."

[–] henrimaine 11 years ago

I think older films are often given more slack, because they are old. Even if the film doesn't seem to have many good qualities, it is still praised and cherished (later) just because it's old. In a way it makes sense - Sullivan's Travels is part of our history and, as such, it is valuable. But taken as a film, a work of art, I find it hard to see much value in it.

[–] PussyCrusher_Principal 8 years ago

Henri:

What in the hell does having a realistic plot to do with artistic value? Film is first and foremost a visual medium. Telling a story, realism, plot coherence, relatable characters, plausibility - these are all things that people like films to have, and it may get people to go see a film, but t doesn't mean they matter in the least. And if a film, made in a different time, based on what may have been completely different values, doesn't " grab" you in the 21st century, News Flash: IT's not a "eureka" moment!

There are geniuses all over IMDB who see a "classic" film and, based on only their own likes and dislikes, like to believe they've discovered that such and such film is really not very good, and/or it must be a case of The Emperor's New Clothes, etc etc. It never seems to occur to them that maybe they really don't know what they're talking about.

[–] don-lockwood 11 years ago

I think they have consistently terrific dialogue and, especially in the case of Sullivan's Travels, an excellent pace and a terrific message. But yeah, classic screwball comedies always catch my eye, but they usually don't have the most realistic plots, nor are they necessarily the movies that hold up the best from that time era. But I still think they have artistic value.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] lewis-51 10 years ago

"Plots that actually make sense"? That's a quality that is remarkably absent from today's movies. The ones made before, say, 1960 are much better in that regard on average.

In the present case, it's not supposed to make sense in that a director would actually do this in real life. It's allegorical. It's making a point. It's succeeds very well.

[–] lubin-freddy 10 years ago

First of all, there's ALWAYS the element of suspension of disbelief. But beyond that, just take a look at what's playing now in the theaters, and think whether those films make more sense.

Listen to the river sing sweet songs
to rock my soul

[–] gbennett5 10 years ago

Wow. The OP is an idiot. We're talking Preston Sturges, and the great
screwball comedies. They are brilliant in dialogue, pacing, direction,
cinemaphotography. They are fresh and astonishing, 70-plus years
later. Have you taken a look at the "comedies" made TODAY? Do you
actually believe that people will be watching "Meet the Millers"
starring the disposable Jennifer Aniston 70-plus years from NOW?

Something like "Millers" is ALREADY old. "The Palm Beach Story",
"The Lady Eve" and the hilariously unique (and powerfully moving)
"Sullivan's Travels" play as fresh the morning dew.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] PussyCrusher_Principal 9 years ago

....and the OP never came back to comment on the comments, so, troll....this is such a wonderful film, and I wouldn't say I'm an expert on cllassic Hollywood by any stretch, but there are Sturges films I hold hear and dear to my heart because they're so full of heart and joy of life, and there are SO FEW of them. I like the Lady Eve, Conquering a Hero hasn't yet grabbed me, but Sullivan's Travels and Palm Beach Story are always sure to lift my mood, regardless of whether it's good or bad. I gotta believe that's what Sturges was setting out to do - it's one of the main themes of ST after all- and that's a successful film in my book. Thank goodness these films were made.

....and Whitey's on the moon

[–] SamoanJoes 9 years ago

I don't think that constitutes a troll, in fact, he does have a point. I have seen my share of old films and there are many problems with them such as editing, I've noticed. Also movies back then tended to speed up the film when people were running or cars were driving and that didn't look up to par.

[–] AtoZ2014 9 years ago

I saw Top Five a few nights ago. That was awful.

[–] politicaldefiance 9 years ago

Films are still sped up, particularly in the action genre (the most recent example is in Mad Max: Fury Road). I think it works very well here.

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

You should watch some martial arts films from the 80s & 90s, maybe you'll get used to it.

[–] cbee43 8 years ago

Absolutely agree. These movies are gems.

[–] cyninbend-149-610489 8 years ago

Boy, do I agree with you! I can watch Preston Sturgess, The Wizard Of Oz, or the Thin Man series (just some examples) and they are brilliant. All I can guess is that the OP thinks they aren't "realistic" because people are often enormously wealthy, or beautiful.... But for every one of those there is one where people share tiny apartments, or are homeless and a kind person helps them out or they get a job aqt the last minute. And if statistics are any indication, the kind of excess we see in the old movies is more than equaled by those who are in the top 1% today! Private planes, 7 mansions, people literally earning one million dollars a day (Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates, the Koch Bros. as an example). And then there is the Russian billionaire who's now decorating his new yacht that cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Or what about being so rich they reserve a flight to space? Even Sturgess' millionaires didn't live like these guys!

Or maybe the OP just thinks that to be realistic, characters must sweaty, be all dirty looking, make us think they must smell bad? Maybe that person likes to see grime? The old movies tend to be pretty clean. More men shaved their chests then than they do now! That surprised me when I started watching my old favorites again. From Douglas Fairbanks to Elvis, it startled me. Gen Z thinks they invented the hairless look...

The only other things modern films have are: 1-Color. Well, duh. 2-Dystopia. Things end really badly now. Heros might die, or lose their loved ones. Government might take over and everyone have a horrible future with hi tech aliens making them slaves. I don't believe that is more realistic, but to a tin foil hatter, it probably is. 3-Anti-social leading characters. The leading men and women of the past were nice guys. They loved their moms even if they were crooks. They were forced into lives of crime, or they were only acting tough and needed a great guy or girl or a 2d chance todrop the facade. But now they may be awful. You never know. Weaker difference, but I can see how creeps could relate better to modern starring roles than to past ones.

This is all I have as to why anyone would be so critical of the old movies that were so carefully planned, performed and technically created. Ginger Rogers feet were bleeding in some scenes she danced with Fred for the umpteenth time to get just perfect. If that's not realism, or perfectionism, what is?

[–] lynnrnsd 8 years ago

The Thin Man series was wonderful! So witty. That's what is missing from so many films today-- wit. I agree there's dystopia everywhere. What's with that? I saw the original Ocean's Eleven again the other day, and the ending was hilarious. Of course it was because of the Code, and crime couldn't pay, but it was funny anyway.
I don't think the older movies were any less unrealistic than the movies today. I enjoy the Bourne movies, and the Fast & Furious ones too, but I would be hard pressed to call them "realistic"! A lot of the movies mentioned as being unrealistic were made during hard times in the real world. It's the whole point of this movie -- that fluffy, unrealistic comedies are needed so people can forget their trouble for a few hours.

[–] adamdurrance 8 years ago

@ gbennett....
Lol. I just happened to run into your old post. Watching the movie now at your suggestion. Not sure but think this maybe the second Veronica Lake film I've seen. First was I Married a Witch. Been reading the synopsis of her life on IMDB. So sad. Nice movie. I'm usually drawn to pre code films. Just can't get enough of big bows and lot's of satin.