MovieChat Forums > The Maltese Falcon (1941) Discussion > At the risk of offending Bogart Fans, hi...

At the risk of offending Bogart Fans, his worst scene in his worst movie

posted 15 years ago by rspear61
28 replies | jump to latest

I have enjoyed Bogart movies for many years and watch them whenever they show up on cable. To me they are pure entertainment. I could watch Casablanca, They Drive by Night, Key Largo, The African Queen etc etc over and over.

However, last night while watching The Maltese Falcon, I became bothered by the lack of interest Bogart was imparting to his role. Now I know everyone thinks this was classic Sam Spade and that Bogie did a wonderful job with the character, but I just can't see it. And don't give me the "its film noir" arguement either. If this is film noir, it is not even very good at that genre. ( and anyhow, after reading all the posts in defence of Bogie in this movie that claim film noir, I think that is just a rationalization to explain away the bad acting.

Anyway, getting back to Bogie, the scene that did it in for me was when Iva was waiting in his office and he came in. After the kiss, he goes to the desk turns around and does this thing with his mouth that I assume was supposed to be a smile, but looked more like the Cheshire Cat grin. It was such a bad job of acting that nothing explains it. In addition the dialog was stupid.

And another scene that was almost as bad was the one with Astor when he kisses her.

The story itself is wonderful, the scenes are a joy to behold as the old classic actors deliver their lines. It just seems to me that based on all the Bogie movies I have seen, that this movie contains his worst acting scene.

"We're going to need a bigger boat..."

[–] PillowRock 15 years ago

when Iva was waiting in his office and he came in. After the kiss, he goes to the desk turns around and does this thing with his mouth that I assume was supposed to be a smile, but looked more like the Cheshire Cat grin. It was such a bad job of acting that nothing explains it. In addition the dialog was stupid.

Bogart isn't the bad actor in that scene.

Spade is.

Spade does a pretty good job of maintaining a poker face and not tipping his cards to Guttman & co. He can also bluster, as when he explodes at Guttman or rants at the DA. But it turns out that when he tries to actively project something more subtle, he's terrbile at it. His repetoire includes impassive and irate, but not the subtler shadings in between.

What you've got there is a good actor (Bogart) portraying a bad actor (Spade) who is lieing through his teeth.

[–] amolad-1 15 years ago

I've got to agree with the first guy.
Bogart was NOT a tough guy.
Cagney was a tough guy.
Not Bogart's best performance.
Bogart was really the guy in "Casablanca."
The stilted period dialog he was given doesn't help, either. (To this day, no one knows what "six, two and even" means.)
Greenstreet and Lorre were great, though.
The movie is more iconic as a whole.

[–] rogueforte 15 years ago

(To this day, no one knows what "six, two and even" means.)

It's an archaic term used in betting on horse racing:

6-1 odds to win.
2-1 odds to place.
Even money to show.

[–] tracyfigueira 15 years ago

Cagney was so tough, huh? What was he doing dancing in Yankee Doodle Dandy?
Tough guys don't dance. Just ask Norman Mailer.

[–] km9000 15 years ago

Cagney was so tough, huh? What was he doing dancing in Yankee Doodle Dandy?
Tough guys don't dance. Just ask Norman Mailer.

Yeah, but he only he got the role after they turned down Bogey, who fought tooth and nail to get it.

(Okay, so that didn't happen, but it would've been a pretty funny sight...)

[–] marhefka 11 years ago

km9000,

This is four years after your message, but, hilarious!

[–] ridge-m-1 10 years ago

It's a reference to horse racing. "Six, two and even" means a horse is 6-1 to win, 2-1 to place (finish second) and even money to show (finish third). Hope that clears up some of that "stilted" dialogue you so despise.

The local Cineplex offers one CGI film after another with little dialogue. Perhaps you are viewing the wrong decade of films for your tastes.

[–] joekeck7 13 years ago

Sorry guys, but rspear61 has it exactly right. Bogie never has been very good. Most of his performance in Casablanca was very good, but even then, he had his 'drop the ball' moments.

www.joekeck.com

[–] heyuactor 15 years ago

(spoiler)--It really was fine acting on Bogart's part--holding inside the feeling of determination to find out what actually happened to Miles, and who was really responsible, and getting justice, if possible, as he explains to Brigid, later. Cool but darkly motivated, keeping his cards close, being believable but not flashy--classic Bogart. Sorry OP doesn't agree with this.

"I can understand it, but I don't like it none!"--Cheyenne.

[–] nateba 15 years ago

At the risk of offending Bogart Fans, his worst scene in his worst movie

I'm sure we'll all live.

cinefreak

[–] shiloh2000 15 years ago

Yeah, there certainly have been dumber comments on this site.

[–] rspear61 15 years ago

To All Responders,

thank you for all your thoughts. It is a pleasure to be part of a dialogue that does not deteriorate into name calling and flaming. IMDB has to be one of the best forums there is. Can't think of any other where low class behavior is kept to a minimum.

"We're going to need a bigger boat..."

[–] vice69 15 years ago

i could never understand how the film spade could fall for the film brigid...mary astor was terrible in this so i always felt he was just pulling her along with all the 'love business'...you see how sarcastic he was toward her in the apartment with gutman and the lot?

the book was very different because it didnt have the extremely unconvincing performance of mary astor...if spade was really in love with brigid in the film then he is sucker of the worst kind...which is why i believe he is just lying through his teeth to her to get what he wants which means pretending he loves her so she will place a tiny amount of trust in him...i mean, he was so calm and cool about telling her she might get hung for miles murder...anyway...

one of my favorite films...

-I'm The Police Chief, I Know Everything-

[–] kenny-164 15 years ago

I think part of what explains Spade's attraction to Brigid is laid out in the dialogue when he refers to her goodie goodie image as an act, but as he says, it's a good act. "You're good!"

Spade is obviously intrigued by a woman who has the surface veneer of a classy, honorable woman, but who underneath is not, with the implication being that of course she is not virginal.

Now of course people are attracted to different things in other people. Is it really so implausible that Spade would find Brigid attractive? Absolutely not. And in that sense Astor's performance was quite appropriate, I think.

Those of us who have seen the film many times, and I am certainly one of them, may have forgotten seeing it the first time. The notion that the woman who walks into Spade and Archer could be a ruthless killer, and has used her body for advancing her pursuit of the Falcon, is the last thing in anyone's mind, and this despite the skepticism expressed about her between Archer and Spade. I doubt the same result would have been achieved if someone like, well, Bacall had been cast in the part, or even Dorothy Malone. And certainly not Martha Vickers! Or even for that matter Ingrid Bergman.

In other words, it all fits.

[–] vice69 15 years ago

yepp...i love the film...i watch it every couple months or so...

i'm rereading the book as we speak and brigid is much more believable in the book even though the dialogue is the same...im thinking its hammetts descriptions of brigid that is so different from astors performance...

when i finish it i will know for sure...im only up to joel cairo in the book...

to each their own...

-I'm The Police Chief, I Know Everything-

[–] Lige (313) a month ago

This didn't age well.

[–] mortycausa 15 years ago

So many guns, so few brains.

[–] heyuactor 15 years ago

good one, morty. It seems that Mary Astor was so good in her performance, that some people don't like her. Shocking...

"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.

[–] noobzilla 13 years ago

personally, I thought the acting by all was brilliant in this film.. including Mary Astor.

-- 'you're a good man, sister.' Humphrey Bogart

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rspear61 13 years ago

Ok, having just got Netflix, I will watch this again (I don't mean to sound like this is a chore, any bogie movie is great entertainment) and see if I can re-tune my thinking. It really shouldn't be too hard after reading everyone's comments.

"We're going to need a bigger boat..."

[–] glorioreo 13 years ago

I'm a long time Bogie fan having discovered his movies as a teenager in the early 1970s. I can still remember the thrill of watching Maltese Falcon for the first time, wondering how it would all turn out, and totally surprised by the ending. I still love it, and I'm one who thinks Bogie and Astor were great. They sure took me in the first time I saw it.

As for bad Bogart acting, try the Oklahoma Kid. Now that is one awful performance.

As for the monkey scene in African Queen, you have to understand that both Charlie and Rose were emotionally stunted people who had never experienced the kind of feelings that were welling up inside of them. Both of them act like 13 year olds in the throes of puppy love because that's what they were emotionally.

[–] jtyroler 13 years ago

Yeah, by no stretch of the imagination is this Bogart's worst movie. He considered "Swing Your Lady" as his worst where he plays a wrestling promotor in the Ozarks. "The Return of Dr. X" is just weird and a sign of one of the problems of the studio system.

BTW - There's a torn poster for "Swing Your Lady" in the scene where Sam Spade goes to see where Miles Archer was murdered.

[–] stephan-128 13 years ago

i also respectfully with the op, and appreciate the op's appreciation of the respectful nature of this thread. But i love bogart in this, in every scene.
i think vice brings up a good point, at least for me...mary astor didnt do it for me. give me barbara stanwyck in double indemnity any day. her style and presence would have been much more convincing to me as the kind of woman spade might fall for, if not believe. i found it hard to take mary astor seriously - like the actress herself was out of her depth playing this conniving women. just my opinion.

[–] pawtrax67 13 years ago

If The Maltese Falcon is his worst movie, then there's a lot of actors who can't even match Bogart's worst work.

[–] ridge-m-1 10 years ago

Spade is in every scene except for the murder of Archer. One cannot enjoy TMF without realizing that Bogie was a gifted actor and gave an iconic performance for Huston and the viewing public to enjoy.