MovieChat Forums > The Lady Eve (1941) Discussion > Why is this movie ranked so high?

Why is this movie ranked so high?


An 8.0 ranking on IMDB for a screwball comedy is very high indeed. The plot is not distinguishable from other comedy plots. It's just not that clever.

I think I can give the reason in one word: STANWYCK

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marhefka wrote:

An 8.0 ranking on IMDB for a screwball comedy is very high indeed.
For a film that is number #26 on AFI's 100 Years... 100 Passions and #55 on AFI's 100 Years... 100 Laughs? I don't know why romantic comedies should be rated any lower than any other sort of film. Are you implying that screwball comedies are some sort of lower art form?These things are obviously very subjective, and you will find that there are a lot of people who think that it is a great film. Barbara Stanwyck is part of that but she is not anywhere near the only the reason it's a great film.
The plot is not distinguishable from other comedy plots.
All romantic comedies have a certain sameness in their plots, but can you think of another romantic comedy that has the same sort of deeply felt emotion that this one does.
It's just not that clever.
I do not judge fiction in terms of "cleverness," but I would point out that this movie has one of the very greatest endings in all of film.You are not impressed by this film, and that is fine, but it is rather arrogant to assume the people who think it is a great film only do so because of Barbara Stanwyck. David-CG's very useful Scripts for Firefox: http://userscripts.org/users/67626

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pplikk,

Maybe I'm being unfair to romantic comedies.

Yeah, I like the ending too. "So am I darling, so am I!"

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Barbara Stanwyck's performance was the only thing that kept me entertained.

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I stopped watching after the first 20 minutes. . . .

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My signature is enough of a reply to the last post.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

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it is said to be one of the best,
so the people will say it for a long time,
though it feels really dated
... much more dated than other screwball-/love-comedies of the same time.

i think its overdated...
it aged not so well as other similar ones

(i usually like lovecomedies,
but its really a phenomenon that people rate them lower than other genres.
so 8.0 is really a high rating for a film of this genre... extraordinary high)

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overrated! not overdated ^_^

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maxi13 wrote:

so 8.0 is really a high rating for a film of this genre... extraordinary high
The Lady Eve is commonly listed among the greatest films of all time. In 2008, it was selected by Empire magazine as one of The 500 Greatest Movies of All Time.[16] It was placed similarly on The Best 1000 Movies Ever Made list by The New York Times.[17] In 2012, the movie was ranked #110 on Sight and Sound's list of the top 250 films, as selected by the British Film Institute.[18] The Lady Eve was listed by Time magazine as one of the All-TIME 100 Movies.[19] The film was 59th on Entertainment Weekly's list of the 100 Greatest Movies of All Time.[20]FilmSite.org, a subsidiary of American Movie Classics, placed The Lady Eve on their list of the 100 greatest movies.[21] Additionally, Films101.com ranked the film as the 103rd best movie of all time (a list of the 10,059 most notable).[22] The film was also among the 400 nominated movies for the American Film Institute's 100 Years... 100 Movies,[23] and 100 Years ... 100 Movies (10th Anniversary Edition),[24] AFI's lists of the best films in American cinema.American Film Institute recognition 2000 AFI's 100 Years... 100 Laughs - #55 2002 AFI's 100 Years... 100 Passions - #26
It is not as highly rated as it should be; the classic films frequently don't do well on IMDb. It is a much more sophisticated Romantic Comedy than most people are used to these days.I am astounded by some of the misunderstandings about this film on this board.

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that are objective facts
someone can hardly say something against it.

and though i also like Top-lists, even by those magazines and institutes you have posted,
(cause i like to check and find these essential films i ve still not seen yet)
there IS something to say against it,
because its not so objective as it seems to be.

first of all… you have quoted just british and american sources.
they are quite important, because US-film-industry is important,
but its something which shouldnt be overlooked.

The Archers, which have made this film, are british people
and their films are cult in the UK. absolutely cult!
so its not a big surprise that a film made by the Archers got a very good position in their best of lists.
but their standing is not the same outside of the country.
except maybe in the USA, as we see here, in the lists you have posted.

i am from austria and they have by far not that huge reputation here
and their films were also not that often shown here in TV.
nearly nobody in austria knows even the term "Archers"
(though i can just say that about the 80s till nowadays.
and in those years there was a time in which they have shown us very much old black-&-white films).
(think the same goes with germany.
not to think about eastern asian coutries a.s.o. how well they know old british cinema)

why american critics love this film that much is not so easy to explain.
i have 2 ideas with that:
1) there is something which is called anglo-american-culture
2) american film industry is something specific and so are the critics of this market.

the film industry in the USA is f.ex. different then this in europe.
we have to compare just the Oscar Awards with Cannes,
which films win there and which here.

i dont want to say that one is better than the other,
but the point of view is different.

USA film industry (and its an "industry") is looking for money, the most of the films are entertaining films.
and this film here is in the tradition of entertainment cinema.
so… an entertaining film, even though its from europe, is something american critics are used to review
and english films are even easier for them to review, easier than f.ex. a swedish or an eastern-european.

its a different concept behind it.
its not said that europeans dont make mainstream movies for money, they do!
but even very successfull european mainstream films, f.ex. made by Louis de Funes, who was quite big in Europe, will never have such a good position in a european critics best of lists.

US-best of-Lists are full of old and respected films which where quite progressive that time they were made.
they have done something new for a genre and thats why they have to be mentioned high in those ratings.
its a more historic view on films. if they are still "working" with the audience is not that important.
even if a comedy is not that funny anymore, it is in the list, because in a historic point of view it has to be.
there are some "dated" films in the lists, because they are rated as films of an era and how important they were that time.
and its okay, that it is that way.
i understand that
and i respect that.

in europe we have 2 different point of views on film.
one is the same like it is in the USA.
it is, because the US-american film industry is quite dominant even in europe.
most of the films we see come from there, be it in cinema or in tv.

but there are also some other critics. these are more on the Cannes-side, not so much on the oscar-side.
(i know its black and white painted. i know that there are some east-coast-critics which love european cinema, but on the whole it can be said that way). in their lists you would find a lot of Bergmans, Fellinis, Tarkovskyis and so on…. Their top-lists - if there even exist some - would be and are totally different than those of the USA.
these more artsy films are more like books, not just entertainment, they are - thats the way i think - even more timeless. a bergman film cannot be dated, not really.

and then we have top lists like this one here on imdb.
though we have mostly american, british, and by hollywood-influenced-europeans ("westerners") on this platform,
here are also people from other parts of the world.
the people in general watch films, mostly without a historian view. they are entertained by a film or they are not.
they arent so much influenced by critics, though maybe by commercials, but at the end mostly by their feelings during watching a film.
and this is quite honest and also to respect.
thats also the way i watch a film like "the lady eve".
it has to "work", it has to do what it was intended for
and if it dont do that
it missed the target.
there is no bonus for historical importance.
i rate an Eisenstein-film or an Chaplin-film high, because it still touches me enormous,
though not in an entertaining way,
and i do not rate them high because its an old and important film.

(though it sounds if i didnt like the film, which is not true.
i had fun watching it, it was okay, it was… good!
but it was not such an amazing experience which it has to be to get a 8+ rating by me)

it doesnt mean that people nowadays are not that sensitive anymore.
the people of today are just different.
there is no better, just different.

so!
there are 3 ways
and every way is legitimate.

if you think the movie is amazing then stick on your lists by AFI and so on…
but don't blame the people that they have to rate them higher,
cause AFI says so.
they have a different view on films.
its a more up-to-date view.
the best of list here on imdb is more an extract of the time right now.
(even 1 year later a lot of those films which were in the top 50 will disappear)
that is what the imdb-top-list does
and it is quite interesting in its own way.

AFI and the others above have a maybe more historian view
though of a specific(!!!) culture.
and if you think this is the one right for you, than use these lists and stick to them.

and if you are more interested in world cinema and film as art
there are other lists which are also very different than those listed above,
but not less objective than those made by the american critics.
and in those listings a film like Lady Eve will maybe be considered, because also these lists are somewhat historical, but they are mostly not so much interested in entertaining movies.
so "lady eve" will be in those lists not at the top….

1) "Lady Eve" is a british film, british people will say its one of the best of all time, like "Sami Swoi" is the best film for polish people (though nobody outside knows it)
2) "Lady Eve" is in english so its easier to get reviewed by us-americans
3) its a mainstream-entertainment film, so it got better reviewed in the USA - or even considered because of this fact
4) its a good movie, but not for all film-lovers
5) its an quite old film, times have changed and feelings too.
6) and in the point of view of visual art its not so stunning. its a film which shall entertain, if its not….

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why i have spoken so much about Cannes
and artsy european films…

cause i could say the same about bergman movies
as you have said about "lady eve" and its rating.
at least 3 or 4 of bergmans works should be in the top250.
as you proclaim it for "The Lady Eve"

but there is - as far as i know - just 1 of his films in the top250.
and behind such films as batman ^_^
come on!
batman versus ingmar bergman?! :D
who shall win?!
not really….
the imdb-top-list is the playground of absolutely different film-fans than me
and obvious than you too.

imdb-top250 is not a film-historical-relevant-list
its a mainstream-popular list of what people like nowadays…

if you want a list where those jewels of the past get recognized as they should
you have to stick to other lists.
thats the way it is

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It is not as highly rated as it should be; the classic films frequently don't do well on IMDb.


and its correct that classics dont do well on IMDb
but its also a problem of the genre.

love-comedies are on the whole low rated here.
be it newer ones or older ones.

and by knowing that, a rating of 8.0 is inherent to this system an extraordinary well and high rating.
thats what i wanted to say

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I cannot agree more on the last line you wrote. I came here to see how awestruck people might be to watch such a class film in a usually, less inventive genre and from the 40s. I mean those lines, the acting/deliveries, the whole plot structure... its pure top class work! I would never understand people who are unhappy with such a brilliant film.

BUT I understand how easy is it for people to mistake its only because of Stanwyck.

Stanwyck is my Goddess. The finest, sexiest and the most seductive woman ever lived! Have you seen how she wins Fonda? Effortless is the only word I could think of, but she really had taken it to another level. So effortlessly. A clinically perfect, aesthetically sharp seduction every time she wanted to. (Combine her finesse in Double Indemnity, she becomes a surreal Goddess!)

That said, the film was a feast to senses. Fonda played the role to perfection. I would have seen Cary Grant more if I heard the story, but after watching it Fonda did it just as well.

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nimstic wrote:

I would have seen Cary Grant more if I heard the story,
I agree that one would tend to think of Cary Grant, and it probably would've been a funnier film with Grant, but I don't think that it would've had the serious emotion if Grant had played Charles. And the desperately serious emotion is one of the things that makes the movie so special. Henry Fonda takes a little getting used to because he is genuinely unsophisticated and not comically unsophisticated the way that grant is in, say, Bringing up Baby. But with Grant, it would just be another Grant film, and with Fonda it is an almost unique film.On the train, Fonda getting up his nerve to go into his bride. He knows that he has married the wrong woman, and there is nothing funny about it. It does get funny shortly before it becomes unfunny again.Or the longshot of Fonda going to dinner at the end of the movie. He could've been going to his execution.And then it has one of the greatest endings in all of film (even if some people don't understand it).

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Totally agree with your insights. If it were Grant, it would have added some BO shine but diluted its unique, quirkiness that Fonda brought in. Also considering the film came out after his legendary role in Grapes of Wrath, I'd imagine it would like a surprising twist, putting myself in that timeline.

The ending was incredible! I was worried the ending might be all too simplistic considering the complexities the story underwent so far but refreshingly, I was awestruck to see a beautiful, subtle and meaningful ending. There too Stanwyck shined like Supernova!

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maxi13 wrote:

though it feels really dated... much more dated than other screwball-/love-comedies of the same time.
I don't agree. I think that it is one of the best movies of the era and a really great movie.
so 8.0 is really a high rating for a film of this genre... extraordinary high
I get the impression that you think it should not be rated so highly. Again I don't agree. These things are subjective, and I did not quote its position on various lists to change your mind; just to show that it has a lot of professional support as a great movie.

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so 8.0 is really a high rating for a film of this genre... extraordinary high


I get the impression that you think it should not be rated so highly.


no! if people think its worth such a high ranking than its okay for me.
i really have no problem with that ^_^

just in comparison with other similar films of the same genre, it´s also rated very high.
it shows the quality of the film,
though i dont get it.

but i think "love-comedies" are rated to low on imdb in general.
think their ratings are not fair

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maxi13 wrote:

but i think "love-comedies" are rated to low on imdb in general.
IMDb ratings are travesty and I do not pay enough attention to them to have an opinion on that.IMDb won't even say whether the rating is supposed to be what a professional movie reviewer does — some combination of the overall quality of the film and how much he liked it — or just how much the viewer liked it — I liked this a lot. It's a 10. I didn't like this. It's a one.Older viewers and foreign viewers tend to be more nuanced in their rankings than younger Americans. I have noticed that.

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ähm… what are "foreign viewers"?!
here… in the world wide web…….

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maxi13 wrote:

what are "foreign viewers"?!
The viewers that IMDb identifies as "Non-US users."Perhaps you have not looked at the detailed data behind each IMDb ranking.

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I don't agree. I think that it is one of the best movies of the era and a really great movie.

Quite. If anything it's only dated in that people are too used to dumbed-down BS these days to get all the jokes in this film.


I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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