The end
Please, I just don't have time to read all of the messages. .Will somebody please tell me. . .Were Eve and Jean the same person and did Fonda's character know they were the same person??????????????????
thank you!
fanaticita wrote:
Were Eve and Jean the same personYes.
did Fonda's character know they were the same person?No. share
Thank you. . . . Fonda's character must have been a sort of numb skull.
sharefanaticita wrote:
Fonda's character must have been a sort of numb skull.I don't agree with that. Some people do look an awful lot like other people.They cannot be the same person because Eve is the niece of a friend of his father's. To believe that they are the same person, he would have to believe that Sir Alfred McGlennan Keith is a complete phony. Charles is way to naïve to consider that, but he is not stupid.Also, Eve does not move the way that Jean does. Leaving her accent to the side, her speech rhythms are not the same as Jean's. Her expressions are not the same as Jean's.And, perhaps most importantly, Charles really wants to believe that she is a different person, and he has a second crack at the woman that he loves but this time a respectable version. share
Wait. . . . I thought you wrote that Eve and Jean were the same person, right?
I retract the statement that Charles was a numb skull. . .sorry.
fanaticita wrote
I thought you wrote that Eve and Jean were the same person, right?They are the same person, but from Charles's point of view when he meets Eve in his parents home, they cannot be the same person, no matter how much they look alike, as Eve is the niece of a very respectable, or so he seems, friend of his parents.The point is that Charles is not dumb because he does not recognize that they are the same person — if that is what you are saying. They cannot be the same person because Eve is the English niece of a friend of his parents.I believe Charles's father started his brewery after prohibitions ended with the profits that he made bootlegging, and in general I am sure he is quite cynical, but when it comes to Sir Alfred McGlennan Keith, Mr. Pike is overly impressed and easily taken. Also, everyone else accepts Sir Alfred as genuine. share
This is very confusing. . . . maybe the director wanted to it appear so?
Now I get that Eve and Jean were the same person, but Charles does not seem to think so because of her supposed relationship with friends of Charles' parents.
Whew. . . . thank you for taking the time to explain this. I really appreciate it.
fanaticitawrote:
maybe the director wanted to it appear so?We, the audience, know that they are the same person because we hear Jean plotting her revenge.
but Charles does not seem to think so because of her supposed relationship with friends of Charles' parents.That is one of the reasons. If you were introduced by your parents to the American son of old American friends of theirs, and he looked exactly like a French boy that you dated last summer in France, and some of whose family you had met, I suggest that you would be confused but that you would assume that they are different people.Also, as I said, Eve has different speech patterns from Jean. I don't just mean the accent. She moves differently than Jean does. She does not express things the way that Jean does.But perhaps the most important thing is that Charles wants Eve to be a different person, and thus give him a second chance with a respectable version of the woman that he loves.The revenge is that the "respectable" Eve turns out to be even less respectable than Jean the con woman. share
Charles very much wants Eve to be a different person than Jean. If she looks exactly like the woman he loved but is "respectable," then she is literally perfect in his eyes. Also, Charles is a very intelligent person in a scholarly sense but, because he is lacking in real world experience, very naïve. When he sees this woman who looks so much like Jean, he goes into uber-academic mode and over-analyzes the situation. In overthinking it, he makes the possibility that Jean and Eve are two distinct people a probable reality.
Sweet merciful crap!
It's just tea! *sips* Needs more gin.
rahrah14 wrote:
Charles very much wants Eve to be a different person than Jean.I think it is much more that above than this below.
When he sees this woman who looks so much like Jean, he goes into uber-academic mode and over-analyzes the situation.He wants so badly for Eve to be a better Jean that he does not look at it with any skepticism at all.That is easy for Charles because he is not a very skeptical person. share
I don't think he's skeptical either. Perhaps I didn't phrase it correctly. He's quick to accept that Jean and Eve are two different people because he wants to believe it and he's not "common-sense" oriented so he doesn't consider the unlikelihood of that scenario. It is possible for two people to look that much alike and that's good enough for Charles.
Sweet merciful crap!
It's just tea! *sips* Needs more gin.
rahrah14 wrote:
he's not "common-sense" oriented so he doesn't consider the unlikelihood of that scenario.Okay. Muggsy takes the "common sense" approach that if two people look alike, they are the same. Charles takes a more sophisticated approach — why would she do this, she hasn't disguised her appearance, her uncle is a friend of his parents. And Charles, unlike Muggsy, is aware that really strange coincidences do occur.I agree the real thing is that he wants to believe they are different women. share
How did Fonda not know? That's, of course, impossible, especially for someone who is a scientist, and had access to an excellent education.
I. Drink. Your. Milkshake! [slurp!] I DRINK IT UP! - Daniel Plainview - There Will Be Blood
jmillerdp wrote:
How did Fonda not know?I explained that above.http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033804/board/view/241031645?d=241066194#241066194And see the following discussion. share
In addition to the fact that Charles wants to believe that Eve and Jean are different people, and skillfully talks himself into believing that's plausible--after going through that process he's then offered a very reasonable explanation of the resemblance between the "two women" (that they are full-blooded sisters).
After that, he's invested in believing that there are two look-alike sisters, and that he happens to have met them both.
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Grey Fairy / White Wolf