MovieChat Forums > How Green Was My Valley (1942) Discussion > Why 'Green' won over 'Citizen Kane'??? ...

Why 'Green' won over 'Citizen Kane'??? A theory

posted 16 years ago by movie-viking
60 replies | jump to latest

My opinion is that in the late 1930's to early 1940's, some of the winning films like "How Green Was My Valley" won because (in part) they caught the mood, and the fears of Americans who could see the tentacles of war (World War II) coming closer and cloer to ENSNARE them and their family (notably - their young SONS).

Brilliant as "Citizen Kane" was, I suspect the tie breaker for some Oscar votors was - that "How Green Was My Valley" showed outside forces pulling apart a family. And despite some physical separations - the family seemed to stil be one.

Dad, Mom, the kids - especially the young males - even before Pearl Harbor - could strongly suspect that they, too, would soon be drawn in.

(Polls taken by the US Gov't - as seen in some Frank Capra Why We Fight series - show the US change in attitude...)

This is my "historical context" theory.

[–] guitar-god-777 16 years ago

No one liked Citizen Kane at the time it was released. In fact, whenever a nomination for Kane was brought up, it was booed. It wasn't until later people realized how magnificent the film actually is.

...But I am only 16

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] HarlowMGM 16 years ago

I agree but don't forget GREEN was also a blockbuster success and KANE was "merely" a critical smash that did moderately well at the box office. Oscar even to this day will often go for the most popular of the nominated films for Best Picture.

[–] arsee 13 years ago

Oscar even to this day will often go for the most popular of the nominated films for Best Picture.

Whaaat? O Rly?

[–] mulhollandpsycho 13 years ago

The King's Speech. The Hurt Locker. Crash.

It's not that the film is the most popular, rather that the academy members "gang up" and focus on one movie to award the Best Picture Oscar to.

[–] tobias_681 8 years ago

that did moderately well at the box office

"Moderately well" as in it bombed and lost money on it's initial run.

---

"You see things; and you say Why? But I dream things that never were and I say Why not?"

[–] MycroftHolmes 13 years ago

There was quite a newspaper campaign against Kane at the time backed by W.R. Hearst.

What we have here is failure to communicate!

[–] TettiTatti 15 years ago

My theory as to why Citizen Kane lost that year is because William Randolph Hearst was on a mission to destroy CK because it was a thinly-disguised savage portrayal of Hearst. The press can do powerful things when it wants to.

That being said, I found HGWMV to be an incredibly powerful film. If Kane had to lose, I'm glad this won. Donald Crisp gave his most memorable performance - a real tear jerker.

[–] Phillip Marlowe 15 years ago

God, I'm tired of this subject. I like Citizen Kane a lot (and I admire it even more than I like it). It is a great movie on many levels and extremely innovative. But How Green Was My Valley, even with a little Fordian over-manipulation of the emotions, is the better film IMO. In any event, How Green Was My Valley is no Out of Africa, or Ghandi or (sorry fans) Gladiator. One great picture won and one great picture lost. Let it go already.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rogerlynn-1 11 years ago

I so agree,it is a grand film,,,The Grapes Of Wrath too me was robbed it should of won Best Picture instead of Rebecca

[–] SeisCinemaSeis 15 years ago

The OP is probably right when he says that HGWMV caught "the mood" of the time and probably that's why many academy members voted for How Green Was My Valley. However that doesn't mean that HGWMV is an undeserved BP winner. Perhaps even without the war in the horizon, this film would have won the Oscar for BP. You'll never know.

There are better examples about movies winning because the "mood" was right at the time, and not necessarily because they were the best films that year. I am talking about films like Mrs. Miniver, Gentleman's Agreement, Going My Way, Kramer vs. Kramer, etc. I don't think that's the case with HGWMV.

[–] turtletommy 15 years ago

Well I just watched HGWMV for the first time and my guess is that you have this hugely sentimental, traditional, warm, family & social issues saga which audiences evidently liked very much, as well as the critics, competing with a rather cold and bold new kid on the block that was probably a bit off-putting to audiences and critics of the day (oh and Mr. Hearst). As it's been said "Green" wasn't exactly chopped-liver, as the acting, cinematography and set design was extremely good. Despite its over-the-top melodrama and sentimentality it didn't avoid dealing with serious and topical issues and it was gritty and down-to-earth at times. I've never quite understood why Citizen Kane rates so highly by so many other than its technical brilliance which is dazzling- the story absolutely leaves me cold and uninterested. I don't care about any of the characters. With HGWMV you have a good story and a technically well-crafted one combined. Kane looks much more modern today because it was so technically ahead of its time.

[–] iheartjacksparrow 15 years ago

I have never understood how Kane is always talked about as the greatest movie ever made. I tried again and again to watch it but could never make it past the first 20 minutes or so before I had to turn it off. I finally forced myself to watch it to the end. Meh. HGWMV is a beautiful film that deserved to be the Oscar winner. All the actors were incredible and the story is beautiful. HGWMV is definitely one of the greatest movies of all time.

[–] turtletommy 15 years ago

Yep I did the same thing with Kane, I willed myself to finally sit down and watch the whole thing dammit to understand what all the fuss is about. As far as pure entertainment value HGWMV beats Kane hands down. John Ford is JOHN FORD for some good reasons. Tis a shame though that he wasn't able to shoot on location in Wales as originally planned, before WW2 got in the way.

[–] IronBallsM 15 years ago

Forget theories, How Green Was My Valley was simply the better, deeper story.

[–] ethereal_tb 15 years ago

They are both brilliant movies and either deserved to win. I'm sure votes were close.

"You may very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

[–] aciolino 15 years ago

Why "Green," won oever "Citizen Kane"???

My theory:

IT WAS A BETTER FILM.

PERIOD.

[–] homerj208 15 years ago

Audiences in 1941 believed that HGWMV was a better film. It's hard to argue otherwise. John Ford was one of the most acclaimed directors of his era and like the OP said he made a picture that resonated with audiences of that time.

I can't say I blame them either. Who can watch the scene where a desperate Roddy McDowell goes searching in the collapsed mine for his dada and not keep a dry eye?

[–] gerald-flynn 14 years ago

Here's a curiosity. Despite the handwringing protestations of today's critical how about "Kane" as the greatest film ever, check out the NY Film Critics for 1941. They named "Kane" as Best Picture, but chose John Ford for HGWMV as Best Direction. That seems to be a puzzler to me!

[–] mikeCubbie69 14 years ago

I think it comes down to a simple reason, HGWMV has everything going for it that appealed to the masses, while "Kane" had the great technical look, but everybody was down on Welles and certainly Hearst himself did not make things any easier for Orson to promote his film. As far as today, its true that Citizen Kane is not the greatest film story-wise, still its hard to ignore the fact that is technically brilliant. On the other hand, "Valley" has aged pretty well. Yes, it is sentimental and somewhat melodramatic, but it comes by these in a sincere manner and never feels over the top. The actors hit the right tone and the direction is magnificent. In my opinion, this is one of Fords greatest non-Westerns, along with "The Grapes of Wrath". Its hard for me to pick between the 2 films, but if I had to choose, I think I might take "Valley" because you get the best of everything.

[–] netshopper-2 14 years ago

I don't think that the masses were allowed to experience Citizen Kane due to the campaign against its showing in most venues. Only later in the 1950s, was CK recognized by the masses, far after the Academy Awards. HGWMV is simliar to a lot films of that era and does not stand out like CK does. The script for CK is much more clever and the technical advances were a break through. HGWMV is good and I can't really argue aginst its Best Picture award too much but one has to wonder how it would have ended up had Hearst not worked against CK in 1941. We will never know.

FYI, I though Walter Pigeon looked too old to be involved with Maureeen O'Hara on screen.

[–] nephihaha 14 years ago

How Green was also a "feel good" film about family, whereas Kane was seen as a direct slight on Hearst.

[–] rparker-14 14 years ago

hgwmv is probably not even a great film but its acessible,in that it charts the dissolution of a family unit over passage of time- citizen kane is remote celebral a great work of art speaks to everyone the problem with kane is its inaccesible and remote,