Dumbo Racist?


Remember the scene where the black people build the tent? Here are the lyrics: "we work all day, we work all night/ we never learned to read or write/ we're happy-hearted rustabouts". Any thoughts?

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I started a similar thread a few posts down and I addressed many of the areas in the film people tend to consider racist. Check it out: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033563/board/flat/158821873

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So you mean to tell me that lynching someone just because they're black was a normal way of life in those days?

I just pissed myself and no one can do anything about it!

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"So you mean to tell me that lynching someone just because they're black was a normal way of life in those days?"

Well that question came right out of nowhere. What are you talking about?

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You seem to think racism was justified just because it was 1941.

I just pissed myself and no one can do anything about it!

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"You seem to think racism was justified just because it was 1941."

It was more common back then. This was before Martin Luther King and Malcolm X and Rosa Parks. Not every place was segregated. Learn your history.

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This movie is not racist. Okay, so they depicted blacks putting up the tents. So? Blacks did do that work back then. It's like when movies show Chinese shopkeepers and Italian mobsters. Who ELSE were they going to show putting up the tents? If they were white, it would just be inaccurate. And then there are the crows at the end. The nicest characters in the entire movie. As a kid I thought they were awesome. I noticed their "blackness" when I was young and it actually made me like black people more because they seemed to be the only ones who understood Dumbo.

Anyway I've always found the whole racism accusations about Dumbo amusing, because in general, Disney films weren't so much biased against any single race as they were biased against humanity itself! The hunters in Bambi were probably white, and they were evil. Every human being involved with the circus in Dumbo was an antagonist. If anything, the blacks who put up the tents were the most harmless humans in the film. They didn't actually harm Dumbo or his mom physically or emotionally like the white circus leaders or the white boys at the beginning. The characters I hated the most were the other female elephants, who were pretty stereotypical stern, middle-aged white ladies. Are we going to deride this film for being anti-old-white-ladies? Way for us to focus on only one issue. No, this movie isn't racist, it equally looks down upon all people, like many Disney works.

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I looked up the credits for the first time on here and found out that Cliff Edwards (Ukelele Ike) played the voice of Jim Crow, the lead crow. I was very shocked, I assumed it was a voice of an African American. Analyzing the film as an adult, I agree with many of the points you made regarding the only group of characters to actually help Dumbo and sympathize with his plight and who react so strongly to Timothy's point of view.

By in large, the children and adults who watch this film won't necessarily analyze it to the point of racism but for those who do--you have a choice. Stop watching Disney films.

"Toto, I've [got] a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

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"Is it because the lead guy is named Jim Crow? Sure that's another slang term, but in this case, the character is a crow named Jim. "

Well that's quite a coincidence.

"Therefore, Dumbo is not racist, it just reflects the times. "

The times were racist.

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You know, there's really only one race, the human race, so really it's impossible to be racist.

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I hope you're just joking, because otherwise I would wonder why you equated delusional with racist,why you regard my belief as delusional, and why I appear to you as being liberal. If you are just joking, have a nice day. And if you're interested, my mom's Caucasian, and my dad's from Egypt.

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In truth though there are 3 races, and many more ethnicities. "Human" is still a species.

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What three races, and how are you defining "race", if you don't mind my asking?

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Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid. Here's a breakdown I found online:

The Major Divisions of the Human Race

Most anthropologists recognize 3 or 4 basic races of man in existence today. These races can be further subdivided into as many as 30 subgroups.

Ethnographic division into races from Meyers Konversationslexikon of 1885-90 is listing:

Caucasian races (Aryans, Hamites, Semites)
Mongolian races (northern Mongolian, Chinese and Indo-Chinese, Japanese and Korean, Tibetan, Malayan, Polynesian, Maori, Micronesian, Eskimo, American Indian),
Negroid races (African, Hottentots, Melanesians/Papua, “Negrito”, Australian Aborigine, Dravidians, Sinhalese)

Caucasian:
Skull: Dolicephalic(Long-Head),High forehead,Little supraobital development.
Face: Mainly Leptoproscopic( Narrow)Sometimes Meso- or even Euryproscopic, Neither Facial nor alveolar prognathism occurs except among some archaic peoples.
Nose:Long,narrow,high in both root and bridge.

Mongoloid:
Skull: High incidence of Brachycephaly(Short Round Head)
American Indians while Mongoloid are often Dolicephalic.
Foreheads slightly lower than that of the Caucasoid.
No Supraobital development.
Face: Wide and short, projecting cheek bones, Prognathism rare. Shovel shaped incisors common especialy in Asia.
Nose: Mesorine(Low and Broad in both root and bridge.

Negroid:
Skull: usually Dolicephalic, a small minority are Brachycephalic.
Forehead most often high, little supraobital development.
Face: Leproscopic (to a much lesser degree than the Caucasion), Prognathism common in most Negro populations.
Nose: Low & broad in root and bridge with characteristic depression at root.

Another popular division recognizes 4 major races

The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid. This is based on a racial classification made by Carleton S. Coon in 1962. There is no universally accepted classification for “race”, however, and its use has been under fire over the last few decades. The United Nations, in a 1950 statement, opted to “drop the term ‘race’ altogether and speak of “ethnic groups”. In this case, there are more than 5,000 ethnic groups in the world, according to a 1998 study published in the Scientific American.


The .pdf text from the U.S. National Library of Medicine is also available here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1762596/

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Your article is somewhat out of date, about 45 years out of date. Every single human on the Earth is descended from the same woman who walked out of Africa's Rift Valley about 200,000 years ago theMitochondrial Eve'. So there is not three races of human, we are all human and the same under the skin.

http://io9.com/5878996/how-mitochondrial-eve-connected-all-humanity-an d-rewrote-human-evolution

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I am the Queen of Snark, TStopped said so.

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It reflects the attitudes of the times, I suppose. See also "Gone With the Wind," etc. I just ordered Dumbo and when my kids (four, 11-17) see it, I will probably mention the racial climate it was made in, but frankly they'll probably get it without my input. I don't see any benefit to avoiding or harshing on movies made in the past whose portrayals of minorities may not be completely comfortable for 21st century citizens of the world. Disregarding something overtly mean-spirited, older movies can be valuable to reflect how society has changed over the years.

*UPDATE* I just watched the "making of" featurette on the 70th Anniversary blu-ray, and the crows' dancing moves were modeled directly off an African-American performing duo popular at the time (I forget their names), and their banter was authentic to the type of interplay you'd hear at one of their shows. To hold that against the movie is nonsense.

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I have meddled with the primal forces of nature and I will atone.

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*UPDATE* I just watched the "making of" featurette on the 70th Anniversary blu-ray, and the crows' dancing moves were modeled directly off an African-American performing duo popular at the time (I forget their names), and their banter was authentic to the type of interplay you'd hear at one of their shows. To hold that against the movie is nonsense.


I just saw this documentary too. The animators modeled the crows after black musicians and dancers, basically copying there movements and the banter that could be found on many jazz recordings at the time. They took these characters, which were clearly meant to be black and made them into mentors and heroes. In animation every type of character has to be exaggerated a bit fro it to stand out on screen (especially in a "cartoony" picture like Dumbo. But in no way did Disney imply that these crows were inferior to the other animals or characters. They are still amongst the most beloved characters in Disney.







We are the children of children and we live as we are shown- "Joe vs. The Volcano"

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The dancers they used as models were probably the Nicholas Brothers. They were spectacular dancers; Fred Astaire was a great admirer of theirs, as they did things even he couldn't do. You could probably find some of their work on You Tube, and it would be worth the effort to track some down.



We provide ... Leverage.

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You saw black labourers, I just saw labourers.

Never been back and watched with adult eyes, maybe I should.

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by zakso999 » Tue Apr 19 2011 21:05:49
IMDb member since January 2009
Remember the scene where the black people build the tent? Here are the lyrics: "we work all day, we work all night/ we never learned to read or write/ we're happy-hearted rustabouts". Any thoughts?

I think you're reading way too much into it.

I'm not black, and as a kid I always imagined myself as one of those guys building the tent and everything else.

They're just nameless and faceless hard-core construction worker types.

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I've seen Dumbo more times than I can count, and I've never thought about those workers being black. To me they were laborers doing the hard work of setting up and tearing down the tents as the circus goes from town to town.

So I don't see the racist angle at all. The scene would work equally well if all of the workers were white, would it not? So what's the beef? I just don't see it.

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Pull your knickers out of your crack and enjoy it. Otherwise, just don't watch it. There--problem solved.

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