MovieChat Forums > Dumbo (1941) Discussion > How is this movie racist?

How is this movie racist?

posted 14 years ago by ExplorerDS6789
64 replies | jump to latest

Is it because of the roustabout scene? Well, yes, they were all black men, but this was common in the 1940s, a majority of African Americans were migrant workers who handled menial jobs, which are usually performed by Hispanics today.
This scene isn't racist. If you'll notice, they're working hard. They're not just sitting around playing craps and eating watermelon. These guys are hard workers. Erecting that big circus tent over the course of one night. Sure, they're singing about never learning to read or write and things like that, but again, this was 1941. Schools were not integrated yet, so a majorty of African American children were not permitted in schools (not the so-called 'good' ones for whites).

What about the crow scene? Is it because the lead guy is named Jim Crow? Sure that's another slang term, but in this case, the character is a crow named Jim. As for the other crows, all voiced by African American men. Jim is voiced by Cliff Edwards, who was white, but he doesn't do an over-the-top mammy voice.

Therefore, Dumbo is not racist, it just reflects the times.

Same with Song of the South. How is that racist? Uncle Remus is a naturally happy man, not just a so-called "happy slave" as this movie was set after the Civil War), and as for the cartoon characters: Brer Rabbit, Brer Fox and Brer Bear were all voiced by African American men. Not white guys doing exaggerated impersonations.

Therefore, Song of the South is not racist either. Just reflecting the times.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] ExplorerDS6789 14 years ago

Yes, WAY too racially sensitive. Yet they're still releasing rap songs with racial slurs, so I don't know where they draw the line. It's okay in music, it's not okay in movies and television.

[–] eveningstar91 14 years ago

OBVIOUSLY!! The movie is so clearly racist because the circus elephants are small-eared elephants of the Indian variety, while Dumbo, is a large-eared African (aka. BLACK) elephant and shunned.

The way the other elephants react in disgust to his ears(aka. Black features) represents how African racial features are considered ugly.

Not just humans, but elephants too!

[–] ExplorerDS6789 14 years ago

First bridge you come to, please jump off.

[–] eveningstar91 14 years ago

It was sarcasm, hun. (I know it's hard to tell online). I actually agree with you. :)

[–] cjoklb 14 years ago

Times were very different in 1941 when this movie was released. It's a shame that this same movie couldn't be made nowadays because you would have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and all of their race obsessed sycophants, crying about Disney's racism. People who are offended by Dumbo really need real problems in their lives to worry about.

[–] laurence01 14 years ago

I think another problem some people (although not me) have with this film these days is that "Joe Crow" was voiced by a white actor when the part is clearly performed as a black stereotype.

[–] eveningstar91 14 years ago

I think all the people gettin upset about Dumbo should go worry about racism in films that were actually made in this decade. :/

As for old school racism, yes, it happened; it's over now. Getting upset about will do nothing, considering most of the people involved are probably dead or in a nursing home.

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[–] eveningstar91 11 years ago

Racism in the media is something that disturbs me deeply. However, I do have some sense about. I am not going sit around and complain about films that are older than my parents and everyone who was involved in that production was dead. It really accomplishes nothing other than stressing me out.
That being said, racism in the media is alive and well today. And that is where I will dedicate my investment. The people in involved in present film are (obviously) actually alive; protest and complaints will actually have some influence.

I agree that the Jim Crow era and the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade should absolutely never be forgotten, but that really has little to do with topic at hand.

Turning "we should focus our energy on combating prejudice in the film industry that is happening RIGHT NOW rather than unnecessarily stressing over a several decade old film" to "forget the Jim Crow era" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] eveningstar91 11 years ago

Ok, one time is forgivable, now it's just annoying. You're not even addressing my points. You're just blurting out random statements in response to what I'm saying. I can't have a discussion with someone who refuses to argue logically.

I actually agree with most of what you're saying, though you seem to lack the reading comprehension to understand that. I'm not sure if you're actually this stupid, or just trolling me.

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[–] millsyooksy 8 years ago

That's a great point. I don't really find Dumbo to be racist but sometimes people's flippant attitudes piss me off.

[–] joe_538 7 years ago

He's talking about crows representing African Americans in an old animated movie, it's not really comparable to the Holocaust or any other world-shaking events.

1. "Jim Crow" was originally the name of a stock character in the nineteenth century.

2. The crows are some of the most sympathetic, intelligent, and likable characters in the movie. It's not meant to be a negative depiction.

3. Their speech and mannerisms were inspired by black musicians of the day (just listen to some of Cab Calloway's patter), and a black dance team was hired to give the animators ideas. It was simply including another culture, something people keep claiming isn't done enough today.

[–] gabisu 14 years ago

And the "afro-americans" crows are nice people, right?
They learned Dumbo how to fly and gave him the "magic feather"

====================
Omae wa mo shinde iru

[–] [email protected] 14 years ago

I kind of wish the folks who call this movie 'racist' would actually step up and make their case on threads like these - and hopefully with more substance than "Peter Griffin on 'Family Guy' said so!". If they have strong legitimate feelings on it, I'd like to hear them.

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[–] ExplorerDS6789 11 years ago

And folks like YOU are the reason we can't have nice things. You take EVERYTHING seriously, you think all movies should be 100% factual documentaries and kids' cartoons should be completely sanitized of ANY potentially offensive material. Do you enjoy making life suck for everybody? Are you determined to make sure there is NO fun or enjoyment in life whatsoever? Do you want the world to be as bland and lifeless as you are?

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[–] FascistAnarchist999 11 years ago

not only racists slurs, but what about how rap music stereotypes blacks?

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[–] Agui 14 years ago

I think it was MOrgan Freeman that said something along the lines that the only way we're going to get rid of racism is to stop bringing it up. Let it saty dead. The crows are bunch of happy guys that help Dumbo. Just let it rest!

[–] am_buglet_82 14 years ago

Y'know when I was little I didn't even notice the Roustabouts were black :P.

I also didn't notice the "black stereotypeness" of the crows either.

-Amanda

"She will remember your heart when men are fairy tales in storybooks written by rabbits"

[–] laura-170 12 years ago

Wow...I'm 32 and never noticed the roustabouts were black.

I assumed - you know, being the middle of the night, these guys are essentially "extras" and have no real purpose in the film. I figured it was easier to just animate them as featureless, mysterious, shadowy guys in the night. No names, no faces, no race, nothing. They're just here to set up the tent!

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 8 years ago

I love Morgan Freeman. He is so cool.

[–] cyrusdubman31 13 years ago

Plus if this was a Marx bros. movie ( either day at the races or the big store) or a norman lear production, it wouldn't be considered racist at all, would it?

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

You said it.

[–] therau05 13 years ago

I mean, yeah, you can see a bit of stereotype with Jim Crow and the other crows. But you also need to see that they are the only ones besides Timothy that actually care about and help Dumbo. All the other elephants? Shun him. All the clowns? They want him to fall from 1000 feet because it would be funnier. All the other circus folk? Don't care.

The winner is Todd!
OFFICIAL BLEEDER!

[–] Sushi_Lover 13 years ago

"Just reflecting the times."

And it was a racist time.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

"And it was a racist time."

They just didn't know any better.

[–] manofsteel4455 13 years ago

why do people like you always try to justify the racism just because it was in the 1940's?

I just pissed myself and no one can do anything about it!

[–] ExplorerDS6789 13 years ago

"why do people like you always try to justify the racism just because it was in the 1940's?"

Because you can't change it. You just have to learn to accept it, or don't watch this movie.

[–] Marmadukebagelhole 13 years ago

Simply put. The U.S.A. was more or less a racist country back then. For a movie set/made at that time to authentically reflect that element of society though doesn't make it a racist film.

It's interesting, since "disneyfication" is a term often applied to retrospective political correctness or chosing to ignore/deny less attractive aspects of a true stroy (e.g. the changing the name of the Dambuster crew's pet dog to "Digger", substituting an "n" for a "d"), that this kind of relative authenticity in Dumbo should be scandalous to, probably, the same critics who denounce lack of realism/accuracy in films.

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[–] SkittlesMilly 11 years ago

We know it to be a racist time. Back then, it was the norm and not seen as racist. Therefore, I'm pretty sure Walt Disney was not aware that it was going to be seen as racist because back then, it was a normal thing.

Believe me, nothing is trivial. - Eric Draven, The Crow.

[–] buster_hyman 13 years ago

The crows were cool. They helped Dumbo and became friends with him and Tim. It might be racist if it portrayed them trying to pick Tim and Dumbo's pockets while they were passed out drunk, and Tim woke up and said, "Get out of here you dirty ni*****s." But that wasn't how they were portrayed. They were just a group of cool guys that wanted to help out a couple of down and out guys. They were the only people, other than Tim, who accepted Dumbo. At the end of the movie, when Dumbo was rich, the crows were part of his entourage. If anything the movie was progressive on race relations.

[–] cyrusdubman31 13 years ago

Also there was Jim the crow. A take charge sort of bird. Definately his own crow, and subservient to no one. Or in the parlance of the time, "uppity".

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[–] Mario64 12 years ago

I agree about the crows, they're not really racist. The roustabout scene though I have to disagree with you. Those lyrics really feed into offensive stereotypes. One lines goes to the effect "We throw our money all away" meaning basically that once they get their paycheck they blow it on booze or on gambling or whatever. It's far from the worst racism in movies from the time, but I think it is pretty racist.

[–] ExplorerDS6789 12 years ago

But is it a lie? Be honest.

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[–] cyrusdubman31 12 years ago

outside of " day at the races"

[–] onelostfanpaul 11 years ago

I'm pretty sure that "Song of the Roustabouts" is meant to be sarcastic. The line about the workers throwing their pay away is followed by a line in which they sing that it is pay enough for them just to see children enjoying the circus. Thus, the song doesn't seem to infer that they waste their money on alcohol and gambling, but that they just throw their money out because it is worthless to them. This fits in with the line in which they describe them selves as "happy-hearted roustabouts".

Now if you were to interpret these lyrics literally, then of course they would be incredibly offensive; but think about it. The rest of the song describes how the roustabouts never had a proper education and illustrates their terrible working conditions - "When other folks have gone to bed, we slave until we're almost dead...Muscles achin', back near breaking...Boss man houndin', keep on poundin' for your bed and feed, there ain't no let up...Want to doze off...But must keep awake" - the melody is grim, and the scene is set during a dark stormy night.

If Disney had actually wanted to convince people that the roustabouts were happy, then surely they would have shown them working during a bright, sunny day, with smiles on their faces, singing a more cheery-sounding song that didn't contain any lyrics alluding to how terrible their lives actually were.

Since Dumbo and the other elephants are forced to set up the tent as well, one could actually even take this a step further and surmise that Disney was trying to draw a comparison between Dumbo's plight and the struggles that African Americans had to face at the time. It's a bit of a stretch, but honestly, I think that one could make a better case for Dumbo as a allegory for racial discrimination than as a film that contains any racist intentions.

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[–] Trimac20 12 years ago

I agree. As a child race didn't even come into the picture. As a 7 year old I didn't even know the crows were supposed to be black stereotypes. I don't think the film makes fun of blacks, I'm sure many black people did talk and act like that back in the 1940s. Like another poster said they were also positive characters.

Had no idea the roustabouts were black. is it obvious? I don't recall it but I'll have to go back and watch it again.

[–] ExplorerDS6789 12 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6c-bCSSKMo

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[–] cyrusdubman31 11 years ago

Now, go over to you tube and look for "a day at the races( the swing), and compare the two.

[–] manofsteel4455 11 years ago

Saying racism was part of the normal back then is a complete cop out.There's no excuse for it nomatter what the era is.If it was part of the norm then every single white person in the country would've been racist.

You want to play the game, you'd better know the rules, love.
-Harry Callahan

[–] angelx 11 years ago

I think there's a HUGE difference between "it was a different day" type of racism and full-on, bold-faced racism. One example of the latter Birth of a Nation is an extremely racist and offensive film. But it's still an artistically and historically important film so it still must be seen. An example of the former type are, let's say, minstrel shows on old musicals. It was ACCEPTED back then and I certainly didn't think that the people who were doing them were outright hostile towards blacks.

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