MovieChat Forums > Dive Bomber (1941) Discussion > Interesting , average and ridiculous.

Interesting , average and ridiculous.


This movie is a hodgepodge of (1)an interesting picture of the contribution military medical personnel made in WWII to solving the problem of "black-outs" in aviation powerdives (2)a standard picture of barracks personnel problems. One scene is really bad. In the beginning of the movie a pilot blacks out and power dives into the ground and is carried out of the plane in one piece. I know enough about planes of the late 1930's and early 1940's to know that in a power dive they would smash into pieces. Maybe in WWI you could avoid a complete smashup because they dived at more like 100 MPH instead of 300 or 400 MPH. The movie is worth seeing if taken with a grain of salt !

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I agree. The plot is interesting, and Flynn and MacMurray are superb actors. The crash scenes are almost comical. The pilots blackout, and then crash the planes at 300 MPH. The viewer would expect to see a flaming crater, but stead it appears that the planes have been parked in a field, had the landing gear kicked-out, and were carefully set on fire with alcohol. Perhaps this was done so the planes could be used for other scenes. To see the pilots taken out of the planes and sent to the hospital was just unbelievable. Perhaps Curtiz didn't want to make flying for the Navy appear to be "dangerous," so as to discourage enlistment. The technical quality of film is questionable, but I still found it to be enjoyable.

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Agreed, and here's something just as ridiculous.

If you watch 'Captains of the Clouds', you'll see a plane crash into a tree, the only one to be seen anywhere on the military air base. One of my favorite movies, but I have to laugh every time I see that scene!

The 'tree' is pretty sad looking, and the aircraft which of course bursts into flame, looks as though it has hit it at no more than 15mph.

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It was probably the clouds floating all vertically that made those crashes less severe than they probably be would in real life. :)

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Another ridiculous element: For recruitment films, these stories certainly showed a lot of military personnel disobeying orders! Wonder how the military felt about selling THAT to the public?

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[deleted]

First I just have to say, come on it's a movie.

If you watch movies of this period you will find that this one was very well done for it's time. The improvement in film quality between 1935 and 1948 is amazing, almost recognizable each year. In fact this movie plays like a '46 era film. And it was in color, (which was only 2 years old). This also is a history. It wasn't meant to be 1941. That's it's release date. The reasearch took years.

The RAF aircraft was a Curtis A-12 (1936). Despite less than 100 being built there were several on Hickam Field on 12-7-41. Fixed gear? The Japamese zero (naval version for sure) was fixed gear, and I believe I read, built and flown till the end of the war. And the British Swordfish, an open cockpit biplane, brought about the sinking of the Bismark.

The Spitfire and the ME-109 both cleared 300 mph, but barely. And both the Mustang and the Corsair, have claimed to be the first to clear 400 mph in level flight. The aircraft depicted here were markedly slower, probably below 200 mph.

As for the crash realism, If you want realism maybe you should volunter to be the pilot to crash the plane for real. The first crash had to have the survivor to set up the conflict between Flynn and McMurray. The final crash wasn't a straight in, and the seat harness would have held the pilot in place not smashed into the instrument panel as you suggest. Broken neck, ruptured internal organs yes, but not necessarily extravagant obvious insult. Also a plane dropping out of the sky doesn't fall straight down. Usually it enters a spin. Watch a leaf fall. It flutters back and forth, then drops a few feet then flutters back and forth again until the next drop. That's kind of a spin. A well balanced airplane will do this. It's designed to fly and will attempt to, acting like the leaf. Yes, planes have augered straight in, usually after the wings fail. I hope this helps you understand 'straight in' is not anywhere near a 100% thing.

Hope that helps make it a little more real for you.


"A lie can travel halfway around the world, before the truth can put it's shoes on." Mark Twain, I believe.

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The Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" most definitely had retractable landing gear in all its variants. You may be thinking of the Aichi D3A "Val" dive bomber, one of three Japanese aircraft types (with the Zero and the Nakajima B5N "Kate" torpedo and level bomber) used in the attack on Pearl Harbor, or the Zero's predecessor, the Mitsubishi A5M "Claude," used primarily in China and Manchuria.

As for the speeds of the Spitfire and the Me-109, you can't simply say that those two aircraft "barely" topped 300 mph, as each had many variants, some of which were capable of well over 400 mph. In fact, the fastest Spit of WWII, the Mark XIV with a Griffon 65 engine, would do 450.

You're quite right about the Fairey Swordfish, though. Overshadowed by the likes of the Spitfire, the Mosquito, the Hurricane and the Lancaster, it was among the best British aircraft of the war — an exceedingly tough and stable airplane adaptable to as many roles as the Mosquito.

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one more ridiculous aspect to the Fred MacMurray biplane crash scene that is probably lost on those not familiar with San Diego-

The observers who witness the crash are seen at the airfield at NAS North Island on Coronado and when they see the crash they scramble the crash trucks and are seen heading straight towards the crash site...when they arrive minutes later, the plane can be seen with the old Cabrillo lighthouse in the background, which is on the Point Loma peninsula...to have made the trip from North Island to Point Loma in 1941 would have required either a very slow ferry trip across San Diego Harbor, a very long trip down the Silver Strand almost to the Mexican border and back up highway 1 (a dirt road back then) to SD proper, a time machine set to 1969 when the Coronado Bridge was built, or an amphibious crash truck with the ability to drive across the bay and straight up the cliffs on the eastern side of Point Loma.

One other amusing feature of the film is that every time you see a plane landing or taxiing, you see formations of from three to dozens of aircraft making passes across the active runway areas at extremely low altitudes...obviously an attempt to impart a feeling of action, but had the ATC's at North Island allowed hordes of aircraft to fly willy-nilly across the fields when other planes were taking off and landing, we would have lost all of our naval aviators to mid-air collisions before they left SoCal.

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I agree, give it a break...it's a movie! Yes, a little bit silly, but you have to consider when it was filmed and how movies were filmed at that time: some sort of mission/problem that needed a solution, patriotism mixed in with adventure, a little bit of romance, guy-bonding, and all those cigarettes. (I've seen sillier). It's still a great, highly enjoyable film to watch--and in all that glorious color! It's funny someone mentioned 'Captains of the Clouds'. I always think of these two movies together. (I guess it might have something to do with Michael Curtiz being the director of both). A distant third of this triad of films (for me, anyways) is 'Bombardier' with Pat O'Brien. I always get a hoot when after the cadets get a pep talk in the mess hall the band strikes up and they all jump up and sing the 'Bombardier Anthem'-- "Bomb...bomb...bomb...bomba...bombar-dier!" Even Julio the busboy joins in.

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This was pre Pearl Harbor, but still "war time." Actual performance stats were still classified, so the script writers were encouraged to make up greater performance figures. Deliberate lies to confuse the enemy.

Notice in the carrier scenes, the arrester gear is not shown. It was still top secret. In "Helldiver" with Clark Gable, a black censor bar comes up to block out the arrester gear as the planes land.

The F3F-3 Grumman biplane fighters shown had a top speed of 265mph. The F2A Brewster Buffalo monoplane fighters in the background could to a little over 300.

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An interesting look at the times, with the bonus of being in color. Beautiful pre-war planes in all their glory.

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that sums it up



When there's no more room in hell, The dead will walk the earth...

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