MovieChat Forums > The Philadelphia Story (1941) Discussion > tracy as ayn rand

tracy as ayn rand

posted 14 years ago by avinashphobia
15 replies | jump to latest

well i couldn't help but feel every minute into the movie that is this somewhat a portrayal of ayn rand. i been a big fan of ayan rand after reading fountainhead and atlas shrugged (in the past i have defended her in many debates) but with time i came to realise the folly of her mistake. there are few lines in the movie which i feel suits to her in particular. by saying so i dont mean to demean her (no God) but i did used to think of her as someone incapable of committing any error.
"you will never be a first class human being until you have some regards for human frailty."- the conversation between tracy and dexter near the pool in the dressing room.
modern best library consist of 2 sections, critics top 100 and readers top 100 fiction. in readers segment fountainhead and atlas shrugged comes at no. 1 &2 but if you see at critics section there is no mention of any of rand's work. nor in times top 100. now i do understand why...a great art is something which pushes you to argue and think hard on relevant subject but rand never did..she took up a subject and formed an opinion convincingly (which she always did so well in all cases) and never left any room for an open argument. after all what is truth no one knows. but she always claimed she knew the exact answers to any form of question.

i am so glad i watched this movie..never imagined this movie would turn out something like this.

Internet - A place for useless bantering & silly hate crime.

[–] MetFanMac 14 years ago

This movie was made before Ayn Rand published her books.

Supermodels...spoiled stupid little stick figures mit poofy lips who sink only about zemselves.

[–] avinashphobia 14 years ago

She published her fountainhead in 1940 and this movie is from 1943. and i am sure before fountainhead some other of her books also got published but that's not my point. i am not saying the director portrayed her on purpose but the fact that for me the character of Tracy resembles so much as Ayn Rand - and that too in terms of both positive and negative traits.

Internet - A place for useless bantering & silly hate crime.

[–] PillowRock 14 years ago

fountainhead in 1940 and this movie is from 1943.

Just as a point of chronology:

This movie is from 1940, not 43. And the play that it is based upon (and follows fairly closely) premiered on Broadway in the early part of 1939 (March, according to the IMDb trivia page).

[–] MetFanMac 14 years ago

You got it backward: The Fountainhead is from '43, and this movie is from '40.

Supermodels...spoiled stupid little stick figures mit poofy lips who sink only about zemselves.

[–] avinashphobia 14 years ago

yeah i got it wrong.
but i just want to hear from people what they think of the character resemblance?
is it just me ?

Internet - A place for useless bantering & silly hate crime.

[–] hachmom-1 14 years ago

If the film is a portrait of anyone its the Hepburn family (whom Barry knew well) (minus the infidelity subplot)there were all sorts of details with the extended family moving in and out of the house, even the ex husband still hanging around as part of the family was based on Ms Hepburns ex husband....

It is not our abilities that show who we truly are...it is our choices

[–] whomod 13 years ago

"you will never be a first class human being until you have some regards for human frailty."

Interesting perspective. I'm sure that everyone will nit-pick on the fact that given the time frame of the film, this IS NOT a depiction of Ayn Rand. And certainly that much is true, but it's still fun and interesting to pick up on the similarities between Lord and Rand.

The quote you presented and I repeat, pretty much nails the point though. That is where I'm glad that you came to the inevitable conclusion that you did regarding Rand. Her philosophy is basically one that gives people license to be selfish and heartless and not feel any guilt or remorse for it whatsoever.

I read a good piece on Rand from the early 60's, written by none other than Gore Vidal where he pretty much nails Rand's overriding philosophy as being nothing less than AntiChrist, which I find remarkable given the fact that Rand has gained new life amongst the right wing Republican/Tea party crowd. The very same people who wear Christianity on their sleeve.

http://www.esquire.com/features/gore-vidal-archive/comment-0761

[–] kevsmom 13 years ago

Katherine Hepburn's character is based on a Philadelphia socialite named Hope Montgomery Scott. From Wikipedia: "Mrs. Scott became a noted figure in the international social scene of the 1920s and 1930s. She danced the Charleston with Josephine Baker in Paris and the foxtrot with the Duke of Windsor at El Morocco. Confident and high-spirited, she is said to have convinced Edward VIII to stand on his head and reveal what was beneath his kilt (long johns), and claimed to have had to fight off the advances of a lecherous Augustus John. On one occasion she seated her dog as a guest at a formal dinner party. Her insouciance was to make her indirectly responsible for James Stewart's only Oscar, Katharine Hepburn's development into a major film star and, it is said, the popularity of "Tracy" as a girl's Christian name."

[–] ilovedessert-1 13 years ago

The Philadelphia Story (1940) was written specifically for Kate....she was owned the property....it was written especially for her by a friend....in fact Kate sold the movie rights for $100,000 which then was a huge sum of money.

She used the proceeds to by a townhouse in Turtle Bay, in NY County, aka Manhatten....Turtle bay is extremely large square city block, which have a beautiful communal backyard and garden.

Kate also retained the stage rights to The Philadelphia Story (1940), it's two successful runs on Broadway and is often tours around the world.

More info on the Turtle bay Townhouse can be found at:

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/08/31/katharine_hepburns_turtle_bay_house_for_rent_at_275kmonth.php

Many years ago, my parents saw Kate on Broadway and they always felt it was a honor to see her live....as she was a brilliant actress.

[–] alvink 9 years ago

that you say that '' (ayn rand's)... philosophy is basically one that gives people license to be selfish and heartless....'' indicates to me that you have not personally read any of her books yourself.

and gore vidal 'nailing a philosphy' of anyone but his own?

[–] Joshieboyucla 13 years ago

Yes, I too saw several shades of Rand, what she stands for yadayada, on Tracy, but doubt this was done on purpose. The play/film merely deals with similar--although very slightly-- subject matter, of that of a woman who considers herself as being an end in herself. .. and this is, I assume, what Tracy meant-- or others-- when they said she was a Goddess, a queen, and had no consideration for human frailty.
What is wrong with expecting the best of others? What is wrong with being strong, virtuous? Why does being human always has to entail some weakness?
That's what Rand argues, and it's what Tracy towards the end, gives up, saying she's just human.
This argument has been discussed, studied before Ayn Rand; It's universal, timeless, like the existence or non-existence of God.

.;*We Live Inside A Dream*;.

[–] Harold_Robbins 12 years ago

Rand wasn't all that high-profile at the time of PHILADELPHIA STORY - her novel WE THE LIVING had the misfortune to be published by Macmillan Company in April 1936 - sales were slow, and Macmillan was already heavily focused on their really big book for spring, GONE WITH THE WIND. By the time there was interest in the book, WE THE LIVING's 3000-copy first-printing was not followed by a second printing, and the plates were ultimately destroyed or recycled, so it was out of print by the decade's end. Rand also published ANTHEM around this time, with a much smaller press, I believe, and there weren't many copies of that in circulation, either. Her play NIGHT OF JANUARY 16 did have a successful run on Broadway, closing just as WE THE LIVING was released.

There IS an Ayn Rand/Katharine Hepburn connection, though - if you've got $26572.90 to spare, you can own a copy of WE THE LIVING inscribed by Rand "To Katharine Hepburn, of whom I always think as my 'Kira.' With great admiration. Ayn Rand. August 4, 1936"

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=2892894450&search url=an%3DAyn%2BRand%26bi%3D0%26bx%3Doff%26ds%3D30%26fe%3Don%26pn%3DMac millan%2BCompany%26recentlyadded%3Dall%26sortby%3D1%26tn%3DWe%2Bthe%2B Living%26x%3D71%26y%3D12

"In my case, self-absorption is completely justified."

[–] Movie_Buff_Brad 11 years ago

But Tracy didn't use welfare. I'm also skeptical Rand could get Cary Grant and Jimmy Stewart to fight over her, though she'd certainly put her masturbation fantasies of it in one of her books.

Beautiful with a heart deep down and no hypocritical tendencies? Yeah, I don't see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hII5rQEtoic

[–] Razzbar 11 years ago

Everybody's talking about Ayn Rand. I was more interested in Tracy Lord.

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around a porn star using the name of a Hepburn Character that's now being associated with Ayn Rand. I must admit that "The Fountainhead" does sound like a good name for a pornographic movie.

[–] xavierPoulain 11 years ago

I don't see Tracy Lord as anything close to Ayn Rand. For starters, Lord actually had sympathy for the poor that was actually genuine.