MovieChat Forums > Jud Süß (1941) Discussion > whats with these ratings??

whats with these ratings??


I don't get why there are so many "10" ratings for racist and/or anti-semetic Nazi propaganda films. Are these people joking?
Or is this country sicker than i think?

reply

When viewed as historical documents, this film and "The Eternal Jew" are enormously interesting and re-watchable and therefore, worthy of high scores.
These films show the German mind-set during the 30's and '40's surely that must be more interesting than Bill and Ted or the latest Scooby-Doo spin-off?
These films show the other side of the story and nobody can deny that there is a lot of actual fact in these productions, particularly "The Eternal Jew."
I'm one of those people who always tries to take an interest in the other side of the story.
We NEVER get the other side of the story through Hollywood productions, let's face it!

reply

You may be onto something... but theres no or extremley little truth in the Eternal Jew. Maybe when they say the Jews went all over the world and succeeded, but that was just a way to compare them to rats or viruses.

Reply.

reply



but theres no or extremley little truth in the Eternal Jew.

The art of film making is not necessarily about TRUTH, Sammy; and certainly not about telling The Absolute Truth (assuming there is one).

It's the art of telling a story.

And that's perfectly fine.
Film (or literature) only becomes dangerous when people automatically assume films (or books) ARE telling the Truth.



reply

BlueGreen:
"The art of film making is not necessarily about TRUTH, Sammy; and certainly not about telling The Absolute Truth (assuming there is one).
It's the art of telling a story.
And that's perfectly fine.
Film (or literature) only becomes dangerous when people automatically assume films (or books) ARE telling the Truth."

BlueGreen, you direct this naive garbage to the original poster as though he/she was saying something stupid. But it is demonstrably you who are stupid, if not malicious. "There is little or no truth in The Eternal Jew," said Sammy. You say this doesn't matter, which demonstrates your ignorance on the subject, which in turn demonstrates why a person shouldn't weigh in on a debate unless they have something valid to say.

The Eternal Jew was not presented to the German (and eventually wider European) public as a story-film. It was presented as documentary fact, rather like a public service announcement. When you see anti-drug PSAs on TV, do you judge them for the story they tell? No, you judge them for how persuasive they are in propagandizing their message. If you come across a PSA that is demonstrably lying in order to further the ambitions of the state, it should be beneath your contempt and utterly ignored, no matter how glossy the production values may be.

I'm talking about The Eternal Jew because that particular film provoked this altercation between you and the OP. You may say something like "But this is the message board for Jew Suss, you idiot, and that was the one I was referring to in terms of film-making and storytelling," if you were to try to worm your way out of the shallow grave you dug for yourself.

While it's true that Jew Suss was not a documentary, more of a narrative film, it would still be the height of stupidity to assume that the aims of the UFA in making that film weren't basic propaganda. Any rabble-rousing, race-hate-stirring, genocidal-policy-justifying film is basic propaganda. Furthermore, the original German poster for the film didn't carry quotes like "This story will break your heart!" or "The most thrilling historical adventure in decades!" It was more along the lines of "This film's themes and content serve the policy of the Nazi state", by PROPAGANDA MINISTER Josef Goebbels. Hint hint.

So go and watch as many racist travesties as you want, but don't come on to message boards and condescendingly, patronizingly 'inform' people that it's "all about the story, and nothing else."

reply

"but theres no or extremley little truth in the Eternal Jew."

From Wikipedia:

Joseph Süß Oppenheimer was an 18th century Court Jew in the employ of Duke Karl Alexander of Württemberg in Stuttgart. As a financial advisor for Duke Karl Alexander, Duke of Württemberg, he also gained a prominent position as a court Jew and held the reins of the finances in his duchy. He established a duchy monopoly on the trade of salt, leather, tobacco, and liquor and founded a bank and porcelain factory. In the process, he made a number of enemies who claimed, among other things, that he was involved with local gambling houses.[14] When Karl Alexander died suddenly, Oppenheimer was arrested and accused of various things, including fraud, embezzlement, treason, lecherous relations with the court ladies, accepting bribes, and trying to reestablish Catholicism. The Jewish community tried unsuccessfully to ransom him. After a heavily publicized trial during which no proofs were produced, he was sentenced to death. When his jailers demanded that he convert to Christianity, he refused. Joseph Süß Oppenheimer was led to the gallows on February 4, 1738, and given a final chance to convert to Christianity, which he refused to do.[14]

100% truth? No. But not totally made up either.

reply

That is how I felt when I first watched Archi Bunker, then I realized they were making fun of someone as stupid as his character.
I haven't actually watched the movie yet, but I have to for an assignment in German film. Things can be racist/anti semitic...etc and still be well filmed or it shows its point. Even though you don't have to agree with a movie, it can still receive a 10 for otehr reasons.
like I hate church, but I really can appreciate all that goes on in 7th Heaven, it is a good show.

reply

...call this phenomenon 'trolling'. Antisemitic rant is a beloved way to get the attention some people lack so much in their personal lives. If you take a look at the profiles of the wannabe Goebbels and Zündels posting at this board you'll notice that they hardly posted anything and that they hardly posted anywhere else. Most probably, those are fake accounts and in some cases sock-puppets. Pity the fools!


meow

reply

That's funny .. in my experience you Jews happen to be the biggest trolls on earth - always posting the same garbage under multiple assumed identities - and several times a day! I'm pretty sure you're paid to do such nonsense to spam these boards - pot calling kettle black anyone?

Wahttsa matter, can't take a dose of your own medicine?

reply

Which Zundel are you talking about? The one who didn't give any harm to any human being on the planet? The one who spent years in prison for the crimes of free thought and free speech?

reply

I agree that he had the.right to his opinions. I also believe them to have been ludicrous.

reply

See, some people are actually able to think for themselves and decide for themselves what they like without needing to be told or despite being told what to like. That's pretty scary, isn't it?

reply

I gave it 10, too. I agree that it is interesting as a historical document, and I think that if properly understood, it does not cause any harm, on the contrary. Thumbs up for Marian, too. He was so sexy in this one…!

reply

rosarypliers, i agree, Ferdinand is very sexy in "Jud Suss." I liked your review of the movie, and i'd love to hear more about your grandfather's experiences.

reply

Take the film as an art form rather than its content, then you might get the notion behind the 10/10 ratings. Propaganda movies may be disturbing in its anti-ethnic motto, but we cannot deny how they were well presented by some of the finest talents that Germany had at such times. Personally, I would never give this movie a 10/10 rating, but wouldn't be surprised if other voters gave it such a rating.

"I told you to keep away from that radio. If that battery is dead it'll have company." Cody Jarrett

reply

whilst the film may technically be of a high standard it is not about telling a story. It is political "art" at its worst, it is preaching hate, it is manipulative and all aethetics and/or narrative aspects are sacrificed to the political ends of the film. So while it may be an effectice film, it certainly is not a good film simply because story and message are primitive. It's a bit like saying a poen film is a good film because you get an erection.

reply

[deleted]

Oy.

One can use one's imagination and thenceforth easily figure out that the vast majority of people giving Jew Suss 10/10 are not doing so because they think the cinematography and set design are awesome, or that the acting is passable, but because the movie was part and parcel of the Nazi government's endless propaganda output, designed to convince German citizens (and eventually, all Europeans) that all Jews are traitorous, greedy, manipulative skunks who like to rape the goyim. The modern-day supporters of this propaganda already agree with this message, and give the movie 10/10 as a gesture of solidarity.

All these message board posts trying to convince us otherwise are just scratchy masturbation. (Believe me, just as horrible as it sounds...)

reply

[deleted]

I would imagine that most people who rate this movie 10 have grave suspicions about Jews.

This isn't some art-house world cinema classic that runs on TV regularly. It is a piece of propaganda cinema, available through an "educational" video label. It has to be sought out, and those seeking it will be interested in its Nazi/antisemitic associations. The film itself is unsparing and ugly in its themes and intent. So why else would there be a reason for people to give it 10/10. I just think it would be very naive to think that the majority of Jew Suss' enthusiastic fans are non-racist non-fascists who just happened to be moved by the story.

reply

Are you telling me that you have the right to be anti-Nazi, but others don't have the right to be Nazi? Or you have the right to be anti-National Socialist, but others don't have the right to be National Socialist? Or you have the right to make propaganda of living in a multicultural society, but others don't have the right to make propaganda of not living in a multicultural society?

reply

Dear, dearest IMayNeed,

No one, but NO ONE, has been arguing about "rights" here. So yes, you have the right to be a Nazi, and yes, you have the right to be a Nazi Propagandist, should you choose to.

But here's the thing: MOST PEOPLE HATE FUNKING NAZIS. Myself included. And we have the RIGHT to hate Nazis.

You have the right to be whatever you want to be. And we have the right to hate you, should we choose to.

Stop sobbing and crying about "rights and freedom" and just be a Nazi already. Jeez...

Yours Sincerely,

Anti-Nazi Nazi-Hater

P.S. Actual Nazis proved, in their time, that they hate the concepts of "rights" and "freedoms". So who are you to complain about it? Well? Answer me!

reply

This is a very well made historical film. Do not give it a lower rating just because you do not agree with its politics. I do not rate Battleship Potemkin or Citizen Kane based on my own political views.

reply