MovieChat Forums > All This, and Heaven Too (1940) Discussion > Anyone else feel sorry for Francis?

Anyone else feel sorry for Francis?


I watched this movie on TV when I was a child and remember being mesmerized by Barbara O'Neal. She radiated viciousness every time she was on the screen; one of those deliciously abominable characters you love to hate, and can't stop watching. But when I watch this movie as an adult I can't help but feel a little sorry for her.

It must be so painful for her to be so in love with a man who openly despises her. She feels alienated from her children and feels no support from her husband. People in the nineteenth century were so quick to attribute post-partum depression (a somewhat likely hypothesis since their marital discord seems to have stemmed at least in part from the birth of their children, particularly the youngest) to madness or shrewishness. Her maternal instinct, whatever the reason, is not as strong as he thinks it should be, and he consequently judges her to be unwomanly and cold. He withholds sex from her, withdraws any demonstration of affection or tender feeling for her. In her desperate cries for attention she only suffocates him, turning disappointment and annoyance to contempt. You read these stories about aristocratic women having been diagnosed as neurasthenic (often shortly after marriage or childbirth), which seems to have been a general term for anything that seemed unnatural in a woman according to the idealized standards of that time. Symptoms often included melancholia, and a sense of alienation from ones children, and the treatment included isolation, confinement, and other methods that tended only to stimulate depression. The Duchesse isn't bedridden or wasting away physically, but her tendency to lounge indifferently, and her emotional dependency on her maid, priest and father for the support she isn't getting from her spouse, and most notably her resentment and jealousy of her children seems characteristic of this in some ways.

Writer Stanley Loomis suggested in his true crime book A Crime of Passion that the tempestuous climate of the Romantic Era excited the passions of the couple in perverse and ultimately deadly ways: he toward murderous rage, and she toward a morbid obsession with him. The aggravated nature of the murder would tend to support this, as well as the fact that a blood drenched copy of a sensational tragicomic novel concerning female domination was found at the murder site. Could this have been a case of people with too much money, not enough sense, and perversely overactive imaginations?

In this film it is suggested that the Duke married for money, but Francis is portrayed as fashionable and attractive in her way (probably a great beauty in her youth), and Historically it would seem that the real couple married (perhaps unwisely) for passionate love when he was a very young man and she was a girl in her teens. He made his choice, and I think that his coldness toward her is unfair and sometimes emotionally abusive. Watching Boyer in this, I couldn't help but think of him in Gaslight playing a charming husband who deliberately makes his wife mad and delusional through emotional abuse and manipulation. I found it difficult to pity his character. Indeed, I cannot find a man who would murder the mother of his children in the most heinous manner, and then try to lie his way out of it, and commit suicide to avoid public trial anything but culpable. Some even say he faked his death and escaped to Nicaragua...most cowardly.

I would love to see this story get the Wide Sargasso Sea treatment, retelling it from Fanny's perspective. The exact same events could have a completely different reading as seen through the eyes of a passionate woman who is swept off her feet by a dashing man, and then subjected to his love gradually deteriorating into disgust.

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it's a shame that the first reply to such a thoughtful post will be mine because all i have to say is that i pretty much agree with everything you've said.

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I'm glad to hear that someone else had this reading of the film, and saw more dimensions to the Duchess' character than just the hysterical shrew she comes across as at first glance.

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Tellingly, in real life several of the Praslin children (there were more than in the movie) and many of the household servants disliked and distrusted Henriette Deluzy, and took their mother's part against the governess and their father. Accounts in Stanley Loomis' book of faithful household servants (some of them having loved her and served her since she was a child) rushing to the dying Duchess' aid are deeply moving.

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I agree with you that seeing this film as an adult, I began to think maybe it wasn't all that black and white in terms of the husband being all good and the wife being all bad. The film is unclear about whether her madness became worse after his cold rejections, or if she was so terrible that he rejected her. He seems to have resentments toward his wife because she was more wealthy and they were living in her father's house. He really was so brutally cold to her. It could be that he was tired of the mood swings, that he knew that giving her affection only lifted her mood for a short while and then her abusive behavior would start, and he just decided not to be on that roller coaster any more with her. They did have kids so it shows he did give it a chance for a long while and he must have known how being affectionate with her did not help his situation, and did not improve her behavior to any helpful degree.

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I know it's been a long time since your post but I just saw this movie for the first time in many years and I think you omit one salient point, which is that it's implied that her son was the result of an affair. When the kids are first introduced, Reynold is mentioned in a little different manner and it's said that he came long after the others, a comment which I took to imply that thee was something about him - such as that he had a different father. I don't doubt that he was as loved as the other kids, the Duc clearly loved him, so the matter isn't settled but it's a thought.

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Well, I don't quite remember how heavily it was implied in the movie, it's been a while. The Duc seemed to be particularly protective of the boy, which leads me to believe not.

Historically, there was talk of something wrong in the house. I believe lesbianism was hinted at, as well as potential incest with the children. I don't recall if heterosexual infidelity was alluded to. But I'm inclined to take things more at face value. There was something there we don't know about, but I doubt it was anything that dramatic.

Of course we must also remember that real life events were a little different. There were more children than appeared in the movie, several of whom despised the governess and disapproved of their father's treatment of their mother. The household servants also distrusted and Resented Mademoiselle D. and took the Duchesses part against her.

And the Duc was prone to sociopathic fits of cruelty toward her.

You must forgive me, I have a habit of crossing over historical events with the movie. The movie is, of course, an artistic document apart from the historical one...and what was true in life, need not necessarily be true in the film, which is entitled to creative license.

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The boy was the Duke's son. There were no references to an affair. What the Duke meant was that while the girls had been born early in the marriage, when he might still have had feelings for his wife, the boy was conceived after his cooling off and distancing from her, when he probably had lukewarm sex with his wife just that one time and against his better judgment. That's what made him different from the older kids, who had been born of love.

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I lean more towards an accidental pregnancy during an attempted reconciliation than an affair also.

I'm still partial, however, to the theory that the youngest child's birth led to an aggravated postpartum depression which is why the Duke speaks of his birth so ominously, and why the Duchess seems to have an odd demeanor toward the boy in particular.

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The way I understood that line was that the couple had not slept together in years and finally did and got pregnant. It gave her hope that they could be affectionate again but it didn't happen.

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Sorry for her? Well... no. Not much. I finally found Loomis' book.

Fanny's "estrangement" from her children was mostly because of her obsession with her husband. She agreed to let the governess (Henriette was not even in France at this time, IIRC) take full charge of the nursery because she thought it would please her husband and make him love her.

Her letters portray a woman obsessed to the point of insanity with... HERSELF. All "me, me, ME! How *I* have suffered! Me! Me!"

There's no real sense that she loved her kids; from what I read, they annoyed her because her husband paid attention to them.

Heck, there's a letter in which she berates her husband for grieving over the death of his FATHER. She hated EVERYONE who he cared about.

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Movie girl: "Me too!" I do think she felt neglected and unhappy. I saw it on TV with my parents and older sister growing up in the 60's. I really think she was not Menopausal, but thirty-five (10 years older than Henriette). He felt murderous rage for her constant complaints earlier, and finally her unfounded suspicions led to her murder. The film was an excellent rendition of a true case
that may have been fictionalized here and there. She does seem very jealous of the children -- and of their new governess!

Though Francis had gorgeous clothes and jewels and a lovely home, she was inwardly very lonely. Her husband had lost his desire for her and she struck out at him repeatedly. Her confidante was her companion and maid who had once been the governess too. I think she may have been a very intelligent woman who very tragically lost her life due to selfishness and unfounded accusations.

That would be interesting to see the story get the Wide Sargasso Sea treatment from Fanny's perspective!

Didn't the duc commit suicide by cyanide he took? He did love Henriette. That was a very touching scene!

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For the record, "Francis" is a male name (as in Sir Francis Drake or Pope Francis).
The female name is spelled "Frances".

Nit-picking, sure, but...

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She would of been happier if she embraced and confided in the governess,about what was making her unhappy.She would of had support and a friend.

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Back then, one did not befriend the servants. That would be unheard of, especially for someone of her rank.

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I couldn't feel sorry for the Duchess because of her comment about not caring anything for her own children. How anyone can be so cold to her own children, especially that precious Reynald, I just don't understand.

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Well, she was self centered and self absorbed. She would have done better not to marry and have children, I suppose, but that wasn't usually a possibility back then. It is true that some folks don't like their children. It's a nice, romantic dream, to have lovely, happy children, but she didn't have that love in her heart. It is too bad.

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