MovieChat Forums > Drums Along the Mohawk (1939) Discussion > Minister's guilt feelings about shooting...

Minister's guilt feelings about shooting a man


The first time I saw this movie was as a kid of ten or eleven, and it made quite an impression on me, with the vivid characters and rugged settings and earthy humor mingled with the high drama.

Even as a child, I thought it was strange that the minister had such an over-whelming feeling of guilt about having mercifully shot the colonist who had been captured by the Indians, to spare him an agonizing death by fire. He knew he was doing the right thing, and he believed that the colonists should fight against the British and their Indian allies.

The man had insisted on going for help, even though others tried to talk him out of it. Could it be that part of the minister's bad feelings had to do with allowing the unfortunate Joe to go on a dangerous mission that was too much for him?

And when he crossed the bridge, the phantoms came to meet him

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No, I just think the minister felt bad about killing his friend.

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I don't mean to shock you but some of us people think it's wrong to kill people. I don't mean to shock you but I wouldn't have killed that guy, I never have killed anyone, and I never am going to kill anyone. But then I also fail to see Ford's sense of humor as funny, as apparently so many of the rest of you do.

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spoken as only a donkey boy could. tell me about fords sense of humnor that you do not like.

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Never say never.

When your life or your families life is on the line as well as the survival of your nation you either
will kill or be killed.

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The Reverand knows it is wrong to kill, and that is what he does when he fires that musket. He is not fighting for the defense of his home or country; he purposely kills another man. One must look at the reason he fired that shot. The American he killed had been captured by the Iroquois. They were going to burn him alive, and do it in front of the fort so that his family and friends can watch him burn and hear his screams. The Reverand shot him to spare him that agony. He is torn because, he knows to kill his friend is to commit murder, but not to do so will allow him to suffer terribly. No matter what he did, he would go through a crisis of conscience. If placed in that same situation, can anyone truthfully say that he or she would NOT go through a similar crisis, and, even if he/she did not pull the trigger, at least think about doing it?
I think it was part of John Ford's talent that he showed such emotional conflict in the Reverand. He even showed a similar conflict later in the film when Lana shots the Iroquois who burst into the building where the women and children had taken refuge. She had to do it to protect the herself and the others, but was shocked by what she it. Compare that to today's movies where heroes and heroines kill without showing any guilt or shock at all. Which is actually truer to human emotion?

Spin

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It was common, once upon a time, to bleed patients with leeches. It was common to spank children with belts or switches. It was also common for people to slap hysterical people to calm them down. I don't know if you're upset at the character, the writer, the director, or what for allowing such horrible domestic violence. But the character was doing what anyone else from that time period historically would have done. The writer wrote it accurately. The director portrayed it correctly, with Fonda showing no pleasure in the act.

I also like your sexist comment that it is never acceptable for a husband to slap a wife. As a male, I am offended. You are intimating that it IS acceptable for a wife to slap a husband. Your comment should have stated that it is never acceptable for one person to slap another.

I also like how you pick on one line in the film but don't make mention of the ending when the black servant, the white blacksmith, and the Native American all look up to the American flag and the hope for the future. Personally, I didn't even notice the line since the character was a one-dimensional background character with only a handful of lines anyway. But what was she supposed to say? "G'day, papi! Top o' the mornin', to ya, guvnah."

If you dislike what has happened in history, that's one thing. But you should not be offended by a film trying to accurately portray history of which you happen to disapprove since the film is not promoting or endorsing these things you dislike.

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Nicely said, ljspin.

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Thank you, cwoliver-1.

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Sorry folks, but the Daisy character is a fairly stereotypical representation of a Black woman. She shrieks and screams "lordy" and is scared of a jack-o-lantern.

That said, the original question is about the Minister's "guilt" in shooting the settler who is about to be burned alive. I don't think his emotion is really guilt. What he says is "Father forgive me for what I am about to do" which echoes the words of Christ on the cross. Note that the settler is tied to the wagon full of hay, with his arms outstretched -- much like a man on a crucifix. The settlers are barricaded in the Church. The words and imagery are clearly a Biblical reference, although I'm not sure what meaning the director is trying to convey.

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The settler is, yes, tied to a wagon of hay with his arms outstretched -- I'm sorry, but I cannot at recall this scene in the original book, only the movie -- and the Indians set fire to the hay. There are only two choices: he can die in the fire in agony, and his family, friends, and neighbors can listen to his death screams, or someone can, in essence, put him out of his misery. That is what the Minister does, and is haunted by his guilt in killing another man, which is why he asks forgiveness. Notice, it is the Minister, and not the others in the fort, that saves this man from an agonizing death -- unless you don't consider burning alive agonizing. The Minister is the only one who shows this feeling towards that settler, and I believe that was director John Ford's point, to show his emotional turmoil at this point.

Granted, the character of Daisy may have been frightened by a jack-o-lantern, but consider the last scene. The settlers have fought off the British and their Indian attackers. The Colonial troops arrive at the fort with the flag of the new country, the flag of the United States of America. One of the characters says, "Is that what we were fighting for?" The flag is grabbed, carried to the top of the fort and hung there. There is then a series of shots showing everyone's reaction to the flag that they have all fought for without knowing it. Blue Back the Indian salutes the flag. The colonists stare. And Daisy wipes away a tear. John Ford's intention in that scene is to show that America is made up of many different peoples. Are you saying that that scene of Daisy wiping away her tear is not symbolic of her part in saving the fort and American ideals?

Spin

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I'd like to add to my previous post after seeing the movie yet again.

Reverand Rosenkranz kills two men that we see: an Indian attacking the fort, where he comments that he is shooting off target, and the captured settler for whom he prays for forgiveness. When Gil returns to the fort after the rescue, Rev. Rosenkranz is distraught over killing a man. It wasn't the Indian; that was self-defense. It was the man who would have burned to death had he not shot him. Think about it: that is a difference, and one that would give anyone with a conscience pause.

Now, rewatch the scene at the harvest party where Daisy is frightened by the jack-o-lantern. Yes, Daisy is the first to scream in fright, but she is the first! The other women join in. They were preparing food for the party. Someone came up behind them to scare them. It worked. They were so into preparing the food that they didn't notice anyone moving up behind them. Daisy saw the jack-0-lantern/ghost first, and screamed, but the other ladies did so, too. Watch the film and listen to the soundtrack -- more than one woman screams.

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I've never killed, and I don't intend to either, like Donkey boy earlier. However, much as I don't intend to, I can fully appreciate how it could come to pass that I might.

I'm pretty sure I'll never find myself in quite the circumstances in the film, but more mundane things might overtake me. For instance, a loved one with a life limiting illness, racked with pain, suffering the indigity of physical decline might want help to end their life early (ok, not that mundane). Would I step up? Maybe, I don't know. Would I want someone to do it for me in those circumstances, whether tied to a burning wagon, or declining health? Hell yes! I like to think that if the circumstances required it, and I was the right person, I'd be able to do it, but I just don't know.

Did the Minsiter do the right thing? Indisputably. Should he feel regret? How can he not! I think the point ljspin makes about comparing this reaction to the carefree attitude to death that most modern films display is a good one. I don't believe that human life is sacred when it comes to discussions of euthanasia, although I do think it is sacred when it comes to discussions about capital punishment. That's my opinio, and not a cue to discuss either issue in depth. Death is a complex issue, and the way people deal with it is personal and complex too.

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Even as a child, I thought it was strange that the minister had such an over-whelming feeling of guilt about having mercifully shot the colonist
No doubt put in to keep ministers across the country from talking against and boycotting the film... but I think it's realistic and a great way to handle it. Zanuck was one smart writer.

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In my opinion there is a big difference between killing and murdering. The minister shot the man out of mercy, to save him from an horrific death, that is not murder.
With regards to his shooting the Native Americans, they were attacking and he was shooting in self-defense. I do not think a loving god would condemn any man for protecting himself and his flock that way.

The Long Walk stops every year, just once.

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If the minister is in such misery about killing a man why not shoot him and spare him HIS misery. I'm a Catholic and understand his qualms.

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Quite a difference between shooting a man being burned alive and shooting a man who's momentarily depressed.

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I quite get the remorse the reverend feels the moments after shooting his friend to save him from being burnt alive. Less so, in the aftermath of the battle where he sits passive and still remorseful. He was the shepherd of these people. Many had lost their loved ones and needed succour. As a minister, he would have put away his own feelings and attended to his flock. After that, he could do his soul-searching when he was alone. This was the one thing that didn't ring true to me in this great movie.

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