Anti German or anti Christian? - Aleksandr Nevskiy (1939) Discussion

[–] D_vd_B 17 years ago

Yes, I think he did.

But on the other hand; Aleksandr is a follower of the eastern orhtodox catholic church. Don't know much about that kind of faith.

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[–] alaskanlawnmowing 17 years ago

you're on the right track, Aleksandr Nevskiy would be a Eastern Orthodox Christian, which although similar to Western Catholicism, is different in that it does not owe allegiance to the Pope in Rome. That is the main difference, with customs and such being the small differences. Both the Orthodox and the Catholics believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and many other things that are unique to both the Russian Orthodox and Catholic Churches.
But, concerning the moive, it does seem anti-Christian at times,or at least critical of the Medieval Church, which was not perfect and had its problems.

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[–] alaskanlawnmowing 17 years ago

you're on the right track, Aleksandr Nevskiy would be a Eastern Orthodox Christian, which although similar to Western Catholicism, is different in that it does not owe allegiance to the Pope in Rome. That is the main difference, with customs and such being the small differences. Both the Orthodox and the Catholics believe in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and many other things that are unique to both the Russian Orthodox and Catholic Churches.
But, concerning the moive, it does seem anti-Christian at times,or at least critical of the Medieval Church, which was not perfect and had its problems, as all are things concerning fallible humans are and have.

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[–] catsoup 17 years ago

Well, the Teutonic knights were a religious order on a crusade("the northern crusade") and thus, obviously, religious fanatics. Novgorod, on the other hand, was a merchant's republic.

meow

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[–] thao 17 years ago

It was a Christian Orthodox merchant's republic defending it's religious heritage. It would definitely have priests there, just like the Teutonic knights (and armies generally at this time).

The fact that Aleksandr Nevskiy is a saint should tell us something.

- This comment is most likely authentic and fairly close to what I intended to say -

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[–] mcvorkov 16 years ago

Actually, there were priests. At the end, after the battle, I think three priests came out of a monastery (not clud in black and with beards), and there were icons around them.
Also, after that, when Aleksander was riding through the crowd, there were always three flags to be seen. Two of them with the coats of arms, and one with the face of Christ. More of that,concerning the Church, could not have been shown, because the communist Russia was all about fighting the Church.

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[–] johncazale 17 years ago

The Russians are connected to the Russian Orthodox faith, the Germans are connected to the Roman Catholic Church. Hence the pontiff tries to get them to swear their allegiance to Rome. There was a big rift between the Orthodox Church and the RCC.

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[–] Trouter2000 16 years ago

the Germans are connected to the Roman Catholic Church.

I thought that at this point they would have been Lutheran protestants (they began the reformation).

Last film seen: The Dark Knight 7/10

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[–] talkpingp1 16 years ago

This took place centuries before Luther was born.

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[–] agraphobia 17 years ago

Eisenstein invokes Russian Orthodox imagery throughout the film. Most obviously during the Novgorod scenes where Eisenstein shoots every major speech with the Orthodox church in the background. You very reaction, that this is an anti-christian movie, illustrates the very rift between Eastern and Western Christian sensabilities that Eisenstein was invoking to galvanize the Russian people against the Germans in particular and Western influence in general.

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[–] fgeorgio 17 years ago

I think the film has toned down the religious spirit of the Russian people of the 13th century(because there was a totalitarian regime at the time that even removed church bells and didnt reinstate them until 1941) but no way anti-Christian.
The Livonian Brothers of the Sword(and not the Teutons) were on a Crusade(the northern Crusades) against the Orthodox Russians and Baltic pagans,and would therefore be escorted by many priests.Besides all the Knight were monks.
Finally i dont belive Eisenstein was trying to make the Novgorod Republic seem more Christian as they clearly showed respect to Princes and Lords and the speaches were about defending the homeland and not to defeat the Crusaders in order to make an social paradise.

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[–] mistermemory 16 years ago

The religious nature of the Teutonic Knights is emphasized (perhaps historically) while religion in the Russian villages is mostly ignored (I think probably ahistorically). This is consistent with the communist censorship in the USSR at the time. Eisenstein was allowed to have an Eastern Orthodox church in the background of the Novgorod scenes, but that's about all the religion anyone could show among the Russians. Nevsky appeals only to the Russians' patriotism, not to their own religious fevor. I see the movie as primarily anti-German (i.e., patriotic propaganda) and secondarily anti-religion or anti-Christian (i.e., communist propaganda).

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[–] silesius-1 15 years ago

When they bring the dead bodies in- aren't the cars steered by Orthodox monks?

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[–] fredbel6 13 years ago

I think it is not so well-known in the west that crusades were not just about fighting muslims, but also fighting christians not swearing allegiance to the pope. When invading present-day Turkey, the Orthodox Greeks would sometimes even form an alliance with the muslim Turks. The 4th crusade in 1204 didn't even get further than present-day Istanbul, where they attacked a christian city.

As far as I know, crusaders have never been seen in a positive light in Russia, before or during the soviet days.

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[–] Kurogentich 17 years ago

Anti Roman Catholic monopolization.

Last films viewed:
Three Times, (2005) Dir. Hou Hsiao-hsien - OK

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[–] Phrixotrichus 10 years ago

According to Wikipedia there was a pagan faction present during the Battle of the Ice.
Not sure if they were anti-Christian but they were definitely anti-Catholic.

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