MovieChat Forums > The Good Earth (1937) Discussion > No chinese actors, not in chinese, no lo...

No chinese actors, not in chinese, no locations used in china = RACIST


I find it surprising that most people like this film. I watched this movie and it's I can't help but be offended by it's mockery and caricature depiction of Chinese peasants.

The lead male is clearly not chinese, nor is the woman he is married to. white people in "yellow face" piss me off so much, they could of used real chinese actors, real chinese settings, and hmmmm maybe directed by a chinese person so that the film is much more authentic and not so "americanized"

This isn't a chinese film, it's an american film that perceives chinese as people who have goofy laughs, speaking english, and singing nonsense jibberish that's supposedly mandarin but sounds like a lot of "ching chong" noise.

the only good thing about the film is the cinematography and maybe Luise Rainer... and I'm just trying to be reasonable, she's a good actress.........


however just the idea that these people aren't chinese really turns me off from the film and is very distracting...... I was a little relieved they had the baby an asian baby.... I mean at least it wasnt some blonde haired blue eyed baby they were trying to make asian.



Komunickashun

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Irving Thalberg (the movie's original producer, before he died) seeked to cast all chinese actors in this movie. However, that was not possible, because studio executives cast Paul Muni. This meant the actress who would play his wife had to be white under the Hays Code's ultra-conservative miscegenation act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code

And just for your information, there are more Chinese actors and actresses credited in this movie than there are white ones. Also, the film WAS made in china. That is how they shot the locust plague scene, and the rest of the movie indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Earth_(film)

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Maybe the OP should keep in mind that this film was made over 70 years ago and get off the soap box! It was a better than fair adaptation of a great book.

~LjM
Deep down I'm pretty superficial.

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I'm one of the people here that feels this movie needs to be remade as it could be done more effectively for some of the reasons the OP stated. In particular, it is very distracting and annoying watching white people try to come off as Chinese. It's obvious that a decision to cast them was a racist one but that was the times unfortunately. Given that, I still think this is a very good production of the story. It needs to be remade because, having watched this version, this story seems so significant that it should be updated for a current audience. I'd love to see what a current director and cast could do with it. I feel that the characters weren't treated in as demeaning a way as you are saying. In fact, for a story about Chinese people, it was pretty respectful toward them and I was surprised to see that in an American movie made in the 30's. I was very impressed with the quality of acting, from both the Chinese and American actors and was engrossed in the sort of epic tale of the characters. Also, the special effects were outstanding, particularly the locust attack, considering the time it was made.

"Which lever do I pull to be crushed by a safe?"-Karen(Will & Grace)

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[deleted]

As far as the OP thinking that the movie should have been filmed in China...war zones tend not to make good locations. China was at war with Japan at the time.

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At the time this movies was filmed so many things were horribly racist and nobody thought anything of it. That was the times they lived in. You should check out some of Shirley Temple's movies. There is a bunch of racist things in them. They are still good movies.

All these movies were made before the civil rights movment and before our society grew up and started treating each other like people.

The Good Earth was a fantastic story. I think it would be awsome if it was remade. Maybe in 50 or so years the people who watch the remake will only say "Wow, this is a story of a guy who was selfish and treated his wife like crap. Can you belive people really lived like that? It is still a good story."

"Hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a rat". ~Henry Emerson Fosdick

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[deleted]

Since studio executives ignored Irving Thalberg's wishes to cast Chinese
actors in the major roles, it was doubly insulting to add the dedication at
the beginning of the film honoring the recently deceased producer. Casting
ham actor Paul Muni in the lead was a travesty; I attempted to watch this
film and gave up after the first few minutes after seeing his awful performance.
This was adapted from a wonderful book and could have been a great movie if
the execs had had the good taste to cast Chinese-American actors. Instead they
went with Muni and Rainer just to cash in on their recent Oscar wins, no matter
how grossly miscast they were.



I'm not crying, you fool, I'm laughing!

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Rainer's performance was praised very highly by the Chinese, including by Madame Chiang Kai-Shek and an invited audience of Chinese scholars. The Chinese government were concerned, not about white actors playing Chinese characters, but about Hollywood producing a movie that shed a poor light on China and showed their people having a miserable existence. In fact, most of the significant changes made from the book were at the behest of the Chinese government, not the studio. They sent two ambassadors to advise on the film and the majority of the supporting cast were Chinese, along with hundreds of off-screen roles, including the farmers who tended the acres of 'Chinese' farmland which was cultivated just outside Hollywood. MGM were determined to be as accurate as possible and imported crops, livestock and more to do so. Thalberg wanted an all Chinese cast but, frankly, there weren't two suitable leads available, and once Muni was cast his wife, by Hays Code rules had to also be Caucasian.

As for cashing in on Luise's Oscar from 1936...this just isn't true; it was the last film that Louis B Mayer wanted her to make. He was against it from the start but was talked around by Thalberg and Nicholas Schenck. It should also be noted that this film was finished and had already premiered before Luise Rainer won her first Oscar. She won it two months after The Good Earth premiered and about a year after she started filming it! Both Paul Muni and Luise expressed reservations themselves about being cast as they were concerned about being able to do justice to the characters. Ultimately, they were warmly received by both Caucasian and Chinese audiences; such was Luise Rainer's standing with the American Chinese community after her success in this film she was invited to address a gathering of 22000 Chinese people at Madison Square Garden in New York on the occasion of the Japanese invasion of China.


http://www.luiserainer.net

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I think there's a lot more to this than what you can gather from the marketing speak of an actress' website, which is by nature going to be boosting up her status, and minimizing critics.

It also seems like you're doing a lot of creative paraphrasing in your post, from looking at your source link. You say that the Chinese government wasn't concerned about white actors playing Chinese characters, but appear to make that assertion simply because no such concern is mentioned on Luise Rainer's website. That's a big leap to make.

You also say that the Chinese praised Rainer highly, but looking at the source you posted, we only get a mention of Madame Chiang Kai-Shek saying she was amazed that Rainer wasn't a Chinese actress. Your source doesn't describe the reaction of the Chinese scholars, but in your paraphrasing of this source, you claim they praise her highly. What the source link actually says is that these scholars were part of international diplomacy that freed up the movie's production on one hand, and slowed it down on another.







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Firstly, that is not Luise Rainer's website, it is my website and I have done extensive research into her films and career. Most of the information is taken from contemporary sources and interviews. For a more detailed discussion of the background and filming of The Good Earth I'd suggest that you read the information available at tcm.com which goes into much more detail. I'd also recommend Arthur Dong's excellent documentary Hollywood Chinese in which Luise (and many other Caucasian and Chinese actors) are interviewed about their roles and the challenges of ethnicity on film.

There isn't any creative paraphrasing. MGM were filming in China when the Chinese government refused permission as they thought that the film was 'prejudicial to the dignity of the Chinese race' - this assertion was based on some sections of the original novel which the Chinese government thought showed the Chinese in a less than flattering light. The ban was rescinded when an agreement was made to excise these scenes from the film and the Chinese government appointed General Ting-Hsiu Tu to oversee the production. News of this ban appeared in the press as early as 1934 and were not connected in any way to casting - no casting had even begun as early as this.

The project then stayed in pre-production for nearly two years. The original director George Hill committed suicide and there were numerous rewrites. In MGM's own files there are numerous notes regarding the studio's concern that some aspects of the novel might have a negative effect on China and the Chinese. A memo dated August 26, 1936, delineates changes "made from the original in order to make the picture a completely sympathetic portrait of China." These rewrites and changes include making 'Lotus' a singer, not a prostitute, removing certain terms such as 'red beards', deleting sexual scenes and creating a family unit with 'love and respect for loved ones'. These were changes made by MGM from the original novel. In all, 9 writers worked on a script which MGM felt was respectful.

As well as General Tu, two other advisors were hired by the studio: James Min Lee, a Chinese scholar at USC and Dr Y. S. Tsao. MGM were certainly very concerned that the film should be 'right' in all aspects. When it came to casting, screen tests were made as early as 1933 in China and in America, with many Chinese-American actors tested. In November 1935, however, a memo from Thalberg (who had originally wanted to cast all roles with Chinese actors) stated that the idea had been given up as 'there were not enough suitable Chinese actors'. All through the casting process both Caucasian and Chinese actors were tested simultaneously. Anna May Wong, Lotus Lui, Sidney Fox, Barbara Stanwyck and Mamo Clark were all seriously considered. A Daily Variety news item in December 1935 indicated that "various censorship angles" were causing problems if "anything approaching miscegenation" occurred in the casting, meaning that if an Asian actress was cast then an Asian actor must also be cast as her husband / lover. This was a stipulation of the Hays Code which the studio could not ignore.

In another article in Daily Variety in July 1936 there appears the first mention of the Chinese government threatening to veto the production of the film becasue of issues with the casting - this threat had nothing to do with Caucasian actors but instead was related to Japanese actors. The Chinese government refused to allow ANY Japanese actors in the film whatsoever due to the ongoing Sino-Japanese war. Several Japanese actresses who tested for the film were automatically removed from contention at the behest of the Chinese government. There is no suggestion, at any time, that the Chinese government, who were watching the production closely for almost four years, expressed any concern over the casting of Caucasian actors.

Luise has stated in many interviews that she wanted to play the role 'from the inside out' and refused most of the make-up that they wanted her to wear. Both her and Muni were initially reticent to accept the roles as they felt they couldn't do justice to the characters. In the end they both looked past the colour of the skin and they treated their characters with the respect they deserved and played them as honestly and truthfully as they could. I'd recommend seeing Katharine Hepburn and Walter Huston in the unofficial 'sequel' Dragon Seed http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036777/ as an example of how it can be done badly.

As a final bit of trivia, Madame Chiang Kei-Shek and Luise became friends and Madame sent her a Christmas card every year until her death in 2003; not the action of someone who thinks she was a racist I expect.

http://www.luiserainer.net

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Remake this movie in China with Chinese Actors!!

No Hollywood intervention.
Do it in Chinese and in English!

Promote this movie all over the world and in the US.
The Chinese have plenty of money to produce this film.

Just keep Hollywood out. --uck Hollywood.

You don't need Hollywood to make it successful. Just because a handful of racist pigs in the United States don't have the education or intelligence to understand a movie made this way doesn't mean it won't be any good. Promote it in Europe.

---UCK HOLLYWOOD!!!

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[deleted]


Doesn't anyone realize that because of the time period there was NOT going to be an all-Chinese cast! The picture cost too much to try to sell to the public with a bunch of names that wouldn't have meant diddly to the bulk of the American public, maybe with the exception of Anna May Wong. "Yellow face" was the rule, per all those Mister Wong, Charlie Chan and Mister Moto flicks. We're talking about a world without Chow Yun-Fat, Jackie Chan and Michelle Yeough.
"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."

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If you check your calender, you might notice it's 2011. So you're tired of "racism?" It's you liberals living in the past that keeps racism alive - so lighten up. I thought The Good Earth was an incredible movie - I judged it on merits of its story, acting, directing, and filming.

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Instead of taking an active interest in the problems you mentioned, motion picture censors worldwide were concerned about one thing: the scenes of looting. Those were cut in England, Hungary and Quebec in the interest of preserving public order.

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If you think the film's casting was bad, consider the cast of the short-lived stage version that played New York in 1932. Claude Rains and Alla Nazimova were the stars! And Sydney Greenstreet played Wang Lung's uncle!
"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."

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[deleted]

another *beep* crying racism....


It was 1936....times were very different.The chinese weren't offended...

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[deleted]

The original post was so off base, I actually thought it was sarcasm. I still think it might be, but I'm not sure. It's hard to believe what some people consider racist.

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It's a good film and one of my favorites, but the OP DOES have a point; considering the tradition of Hollywood to whitewash stories with people of color up until this very day (see "Exodus: Gods and Kings", i.e. Hebrews and Egyptians portrayed by very European actors in brownface), it's only normal that people would be offended at false characterizations of who they are.

Hollywood has ALWAYS been a racist place. And they've always pandered to racists too. I don't blame anybody for being offended at the casting of European actors in nearly every single lead role in this movie. Luise Rainier and Paul Muni, while looking silly in "yellowface", only managed to make the film what it was by virtue of their absolutely marvelous performances.




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Are there any Chinese films from the 30's starring Europeans or Americans?

This situation here is what it is, a compromise when commerce conflicts with art. Even today, a bankable star will get a role even if he's the wrong nationality.

Regardless it's still a bizarre situation for a Chinese actress to be passed over for a part as a Chinese woman ... because she's Chinese! I would have loved to see Anna Mae Wong in this movie (and plenty of others for that matter).

Still, part of acting is convincing the audience that you are someone else. To me the two leads had bland enough faces to portray some other nationality in a movie, where some fakery is expected. They may be able to act convincingly "foreign" -- even if not authentically Chinese -- to the intended audience. And that may be enough for the suspension of disbelief. There were plenty of rear projection shots in this film too, was anyone really fooled by them?

The worst casting IMO was Tilly Losch. Her facial features were far too pronounced to even pretend to be Chinese. It just felt creepy, almost in an uncanny valley way.

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That was stupid to deny Anna the role. But the children are of Asian descent. I did not know Thalberg wanted Asian American performers. I am watching the film now.

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