MovieChat Forums > Swing Time (1936) Discussion > My favorite Astaire/Rogers film BUT

My favorite Astaire/Rogers film BUT


I really like the film Astaire and Rogers are in full "swing" here, at the top of their careers, with great music and a sweet-natured comedy. However, I must admit that I have a problem with the "Bojangles of Harlem" number. I realize no harm was intended and that Astaire was doing a respectful homage (certainly more respectful than what Jolson and Cantor were doing) but it is just too hard not to look at the number without a 21st century perspective -- and I have tried. Ebert has said this is the only blackface number that doesn't make him squirm. Good for him, but I squirm. I usually deal with the situation by leaving the tape running and going to the bathroom. Otherwise it is my favorite Fred and Ginger film.

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I totally agree. I also enjoyed the lighthearted Babes on Broadway until the "Minstrel Show" sequence. I simply can't belive some of the stuff that studios were allowed to do.

Bye, bye, baby.

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I thought Astaire was amazing in this number, which he was doing as an homage to Bill "Bojangles" Robinson, who was considered to be best male dancer in early 20th century, but could not appear in films. This number highlights Astaire's skills while paying tribute to someone he admired...so you can sit and "squirm" or realise it was out of respect for Mr. Robinson and accept that it is part of early cinema.

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Bojangles couldn't appear in films? Then who is that lovable butler in all those Shirley Temple films? Have you seen Stormy Weather? That was a film pretty much entirely based on the life of Bill Robinson, featuring Bill Robinson.

"Bojangles of Harlem" is one of my favorite scenes out of Astaire's entire repertory. Regardless of whether you find the blackface disburbing or not, the dancing is simply ingenious and isn't just a tribute to Robinson (in fact, the dance doesn't emulate Robinson's style as much as one would think), but a tribute to African-American dancers in general. Astaire evokes John Bubbles (Astaire's one-time teacher), another incredible African-American vaudeville entertainer who unlike Robinson, made us of the entire body (Robinson's dancing was concentrated in his lower body and feet). When I watch this scene, I tend to see it as a satire of the American minestral tradition, and even a satire of Al Jolson (look for those Jolson like poses). You can disagree with me here, but that's simply how I interpret it.

It's helpful to listen to the audio commentary by dance critic John Mueller on the dvd.

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As I said before, I know it's a tribute and I know there was absolutely no disrespect intended. But I am uncomfortable with the blackface. As pure as Astaire's intentions were, it cannot avoid the connotations that are associated with blackface numbers. (The one in "Holiday Inn," also with Astaire, is far worse.)The number is great -- I just wish he had done it without the makeup.

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it was a tribute to Robinson and I meant he had a harder time appearing in movies because he was black.

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The number itself didn't bother me as much as the lenghty scene that followed with Fred still in blackface.

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I will agree about the blackface. It was unfortunately, a product of the times. I sit through it, yes, I'm uncomfortable, but why shouldn't I be? Weren't the black audiences of the times uncomfortable? They didn't have the opportunity to get up and leave in order to protest back in 1936. They pretty much kind of had to sit still, keep quiet and maybe complain when they got home. That is, assuming they even got to see the picture. I think we (whites) should do the same. Sit still, shut up and remember what we used to do in the name of "entertainment" and don't repeat it. When we can entertain without making fun of fat, religion, color, age, disability, lack of education, we'll be better off. Okay, sorry. Climbing down from soapbox....loving all the Rogers/Astaire pics. This one is my favorite. Favorite song..."A Fine Romance". Favorite line..."You take romance, I'll take JELL-O!"

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I like your attitude. We can't go back and undo it. We shouldn't be sanitizing history.

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Yes I agree; it doesn't affect me too much. Obviously it's disappointing that times were like that and of course blackface is racist. However most of the time it was ignorance, i don't want to use the word harmless; but a lot of the time people were paying homage to black culture and helping make it mainstream and weren't meaning to cause offense. Although this is of course racist in itself as this was seen as the only way to view black culture in a sanitary manner by white america.

I really liked this number too, it's a great routine and it's nice homage by Fred. We shouldn't censor art, and we should always be reminded of these things, so that we don't let ignorance and discrimination happen again.

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I think you're over-thinking the response at the time. Cartoonish representations of all kinds of people and races have always had a place in history. The only reason we find them offensive now is because we know that they were often used for evil. It's like M.A.S.H. by Robert Altman. M.A.S.H. is a great example of subtle bullying (Altman meant it to be) where the men all turn the women into absurd-ist caricatures and then use that to belittle them. Caricatures can be harmful, but they are intended for fun (hopefully.) Regardless, we are all essentially evolutionarily preconditioned to force identities on people. To many people back in the day, I bet they didn't think this was anything more than a little joke that they had to go along with just to save face (pun unintended)... like when your friend tells everyone you're the class clown or something.

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Its funny, it used to bother me too, until I learned that Astaire was emulating and paying tribute not just to Robinson, but as elisabetta mentioned, to his teacher John Bubbles.

"You may very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

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Astaire not only admired Bojangles, they were very good friends.
I never found this (or any other blackface scene) offensive, but I find I have a much easier time seeing things from the perspective of the time than other people seem to.
I've never seen a blakface number that seemed meanspirited, are there any?
Certinly this is as far from meanspirited as you could get. And the number in 'Holiday Inn' is a tribute to how wonderful it was to free the slaves. So they didn't express how great they thought this was the same way we would today. We aren't anywhere near perfect either.
I'm sure some black people felt that blackface was degrading at the time, but I doubt that the majority of them did. Some black performers even wore blackface, as you can see in 'Stormy Weather.'

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Birth of a Nation has some offensive "black" faces.

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I think they tried to avoid the typical black-face look here. Notice, they didn't give Fred an over-sized mouth...that was normally done, but not here. I think they just painted his face black because he was playing a black character in the dance.

Is it offensive to color an actor's skin to make someone look more Latin-American? I've seen it done... and no one complained. Why is it different?

Don't get me wrong--traditional black-face routines make me squirm a bit, but I think this one was done differently--in a way that's not offensive.

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[deleted]

I think perhaps black faced numbers are more offensive or can make people squirm more for Americans since it is in America where the majority or black and white antagonism took place. I suppose it is just part of their culture and I wouldnt be surprised if it is having this culture which makes people judge this number the way they do. For me i have never been uncomfortable by it and have just emmensly enjoyed the number and the genius of Fred Astaire.

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In the first place, Astaire's blackface is not nearly as exaggerated as most blackface from that time period. Yes, it's offensive now, but in the 1930's sensibilities were different. I think it's an object lesson in the passage of time. It couldn't be done today, of course, and it could have been done without blackface the, but it wasn't.

Secondly, the blackface in Holiday Inn was incidental. It was originally going to be done without, but Crosby's character puts blackface on his girlfriend to hide her from Astaire, so he of course has to follow suit.

In neither case is it meant to be demeaning or degrading. It was, of course, to the black people of the time, but then majority white population didn't realize it.

To repeat myself, it could not be done today. But it should be seen and remembered, so that we know it was done and we can talk about it and see that it never happens again.

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One of the things that I "respect" about Fred Astaire's makeup is that it wasn't a caricature of a black man, unlike most blackface performances. There were no exaggerated features.

I didn't know what I was about to see when that scene came up - but once the number was in full swing, if anything it was a subversive dig at traditional blackface.

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Swing Time is on TCM as I write this--I adore this movie but I have to leave the room when the Bojangles number comes on. I understand the reasons why Astaire wore blackface, and that the number was an homage to Bill Robinson, but I simply cringe when Astaire makes his appearance.

I love the old movies, musicals in particular. The costumes, the sets and the silly/sweet plots. I sometimes feel like Cecilia in Purple Rose of Cairo....escaping into the movies and hoping like heck to live that kind of life. Oh to dance with Astaire while wearing a feathery flowing gown....sigh...


PrincessDoctorCowboy

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[deleted]

If seeing a blackface number, perfectly and lovingly executed makes you "squirm," then all I can do is to suggest growing up.
This was another place and time, and even if it's not considered right with today's perspective, it was created and performed THEN.
One question - - -do you ever watch blaxploitation films, or "gangsta" boys in da hood type of films ?
If so, do you squirm when whitey gets shot, stabbed, raped, electrocuted, chopped up or burned alive by the black stars of these films ?
I have never once heard or read of a black person "squirming" when they watch these films, so why should you when you see a "musical" performed in blackface ?
I'm certain that I'm wasting my time, as you really do seem to be a sad victim of the massive guilt complex that has been bestowed on America.

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To the OP:

Rent a DVD or video of THE BAND WAGON (one of my faves) and watch the dance "Shine on My Shoes" which Fred did with Leroy Johnson, a genuine bootblack.
It just might make you feel better.
Fred didn't have a racist bone in his body.

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I saw The Band Wagon in a class on musicals and I was almost shocked out of my seat to finally see a black man in a non-stereotypical role. That's a great movie, definitely one of my favorite musicals.

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I like the number in Band Wagon and am not offended by it -- the dancing is great -- but how can you say it is a non-stereotypical role? The guy is shining shoes, for God's sake!

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This is probably the only time I see someone in blackface where I don't squirm or become offended. Fred Astaire greatly admired Bill Robinson, and that incredible number shows his respect for the man. I've heard that Astaire didn't want to do the number in blackface, so maybe that's why his face isn't overly done as others were in other films or on the stage.

As someone mentioned, I'm a little more uncomfortable with the sequence afterward where Fred remains in blackface and the world comes crashing down on him. I wished he could have wiped that stuff off his face.

Otherwise, the number itself is one of Fred Astaire's finest moments on film. Swing Time is also my favorite Astaire-Rogers musical.

"Watch me run a 50-yard dash with my legs cut off!"

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This certainly isn't an offensive blackface moment, as it's been said, it was a tribute and a great dance by Astaire. To be honest, I've never been offended or really understood the offense taken by blackface in older musicals. It was just a part of the act for some entertainers. Is it offensive that Marlon Brando played an Asian in "Teahouse of the August Moon?" Is it offensive that the Wayons Bros. played white women in "White Chicks?" Is Robert Downey currently offensive playing a surgically constructed black man in "Tropic Thunder?"

I just think that as long as nothing racist is said or implied in these roles or musical numbers, they're harmless.

"I know you're in there, Fagerstrom!"-Conan O'Brien

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Do I dislike the number? No.

I understand why people are offended by the use of blackface, and have seen some disgusting examples. But in this film, Astaire truly meant to pay a tribute to a very talented dancer (who, by the way was underutilized in films) by using some elements of his style to shape the dance; including, unfortunately, blackface. Astaire may have meant well, and was probably not racist, but was still shaped by some of the attitudes of his time.
The choreography is some of the most wonderful and inventive I have ever seen in film. Despite my feelings about blackface, when I see the film I can't help feeling charmed, happy and, yes, nostalgic about the great Bill Robinson, who I admire almost as much as I admire Astaire and am sorry he is so often remembered only as Shirley Temple's dance partner.
So I hope the number is never cut. It is great dancing and a window into the attitudes of its time.

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For some reason I didn't find this as offensive as most blackface numbers. Maybe because it's more of a tribute and also I've seen some black face numbers that really offended me where they not only paint black makeup, but big white lips. Those make me cringe.

"Farewell Ethel Barrymore, I must tear myself from your side" *rip*

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