MovieChat Forums > Romeo and Juliet (1936) Discussion > Nagging Question - Possible Plot Hole

Nagging Question - Possible Plot Hole

posted 16 years ago by bok602
10 replies | jump to latest

The entire plot gets rolling when Romeo & friends crash the party at Capulet's House; this is referred to several times by the characters -Romeo included. He even asks whether they mean well in crashing the party and asks what speech they will give as an excuse if caught.

Once there, he sees Juliet, flirts, falls in love and asks who she is -and seems utterly astonished when he learns she's a Capulet!

Uhm...WHY?

He's at Capulet's house...surrounded by Old Man Capulet, Lord and Lady Capulet and a whole raft of Capulet's kinsmen -including Tybalt and the Count of Paris.

It's not like he didn't know where he was, nor that there were Capulets in attendance. So just exactly why is it news to him that Juliet just might be...GASP!...a CAPULET?

Any scholars out there who can offer some insight?
"If you don't know the answer -change the question."

[–] practicepiano 14 years ago

LOL -- I see your point.

I've always interpreted it as his being shocked that the girl with whom he had fallen in love was one of the enemy, as opposed to being shocked that he encountered a Capulet in the Capulet's home.

[–] bok602 14 years ago

Either way, Romeo should not have been surprised.

It's firmly established that as far as the plot of R&J goes, Capulet = Enemy and Enemy = Capulet. Six of one, half dozen of the other. It's like me crashing a party in downtown Paris and complaining about all the foreigners.

I can understand Juliet being taken by surprise because there she was in her own home -surrounded by Family, friends and relatives- and the one guy she flirts with turns out to be a party-crashing Montageue.

"If you don't know the answer -change the question."

[–] practicepiano 14 years ago

I think you may have missed the point of my answer.

After he has fallen for her, he finds out that she is a Capulet. I don't think he is surprised that there is a Capulet there, I think he is surprised to find out that he can find it in his heart to love one. Or, perhaps, that Capulets can be wonderful.

Make sense?

[–] bok602 14 years ago

Okay. I can see that. But as Wild Bill wrote it, Romeo's reaction to the discovery is a little bit over the top.

"If you don't know the answer -change the question."

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

That's not a plot hole.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

Romeo was surprised that Juliet was a Capulet but I'm surprised this is even an issue; especially a 'nagging' one, as you describe it.

As I recall, Romeo, who was smitten with Rosaline, crashed the Capulet party believing she would be there. The party was a big social event so, as with most parties, there are a lot of people there; not just the family members of the host.

As someone else has already pointed out, his surprise was not only that she's a Capulet it's also because it would have brought to mind all the issues that went with her being from the 'wrong' family. For instance, once she found out, she may no longer be interested in him; their families would object to their being together; etc. That would be a problem.

Also, I think the party was to celebrate Juliet's betrothal to Paris. He may have known this so that would be a cause for surprise; learning you've fallen for someone who was just engaged to marry someone else. Romeo must have realized, regardless of their family feud, he wasn't exactly the best match for Juliet; especially not compared to Paris.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] bok602 8 years ago

It is true that Romeo crashed the party because he got word that Rosalind was there - which opens the door for the possible plot hole because if Rosalind (and presumably her family) are Capulet sympathisers, it makes no sense that given all the civil brawls in the streets between the families, he would knowingly have been wooing the fair Rosalind (which is just as well, because she went on to marry Orlando in another play).

The point is that under any circumstances, no matter which way you look at it, Romeo should not have been so surprised that Juliet was a Capulet. He was in Capulet's house, at party given by the Capulets ("an old accustomed feast," as Lord Capulet describes it, and not Juliet's betrothal; although the implication given by her parents beforehand is that the event will serve as Paris' opportunity to meet and woo her).

It makes complete sense that Juliet would be surprised, because she's in her own home surrounded by family, relatives and friends.

There is, however, no rational explanation why in a house full of Capulets and Capulet allies, Romeo should be so astonished that Juliet was in any way aligned with them (which again opens the plot hole of Rosalind). The entire dynamic of the play is that you're either Team Capulet or Team Monrague.

"If you don't know the answer -change the question."

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

bok602 says > There is, however, no rational explanation why in a house full of Capulets and Capulet allies, Romeo should be so astonished that Juliet was in any way aligned with them (which again opens the plot hole of Rosalind). The entire dynamic of the play is that you're either Team Capulet or Team Monrague.

You say Rosalind opens a plot hole but isn't it really the opposite? The fact Romeo went to the party expecting or hoping to see her mean that the party guests were not exclusively the Capulet clan and their friends?

I don't recall if Romeo knew beforehand who was throwing the party but I believe the person who took him knew that in advance. Either way, just as someone else had taken him, isn't it possible he thought Juliet might have been there as a friend of a guest?

Even if Romeo knew it was a Capulet affair, Juliet being there didn't necessarily mean she was a member of the family. Falling for someone who knew the family would have been difficult enough but it's a whole other matter to fall for a member of the family.

That also answers your question about Rosalind. After knowing who Juliet was, his interest in her didn't fade. They both knew what their involvement with each other would mean; what a problem it would be, but they pushed forward anyway. Once they had feelings for each other, the rest didn't matter.

The feelings of love were stronger than whatever hate they had been taught to feel for each other's family. That is, after all, the point of the story; isn't it?

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

[–] bok602 8 years ago

I must disagree.

I maintain that the Lady Rosalind IS a plot hole because if she was invited to the Capulet feast, she was either a Capulet or Capulet sympathizer. Therefore, Romeo's infatuation with her presents several unanswered questions.

[Playing Devil's advocate, however, it could be argued that Friar Lawrence's telling Romeo to "bury love" with reference to her may be interpreted as meaning that - having found out or realizing that Rosalind was a Capulet - he advised her to give her up and move on. But, being a typical horny teenager, he was still mooning after her and thus intentionally crashed the party where she would be.

HOWEVER, since this is not expressly explained in the text of the play, it must still be considered a plot hole. None of the Romeo/Rosalind backstory is spelled out within the text of the play.]

Also, Romeo and Co. were well aware that they were crashing Capulet's feast because (in the original play) they run into Capulet's illiterate messenger with the invite list - from whom Romeo learns that Rosalind will be in attendance - and who specifically tells them that anyone from the House of Montague are not welcome.

That being said, it should have come as no surprise that the Feast at the House of Capulet was populated by Capulets and Capulet sympathizers - including Juliet and the Lady Rosalind.

Therefore it goes without saying that there is no rational reason why Romeo should have been so astonished that ANYONE he met at Capulet's feast was in one degree or another a Capulet.

"If you don't know the answer -change the question."

[–] mdonln 8 years ago

bok602 says > Therefore it goes without saying that there is no rational reason why Romeo should have been so astonished that ANYONE he met at Capulet's feast was in one degree or another a Capulet.

1. It's a simple matter of common sense. As an uninvited and unwelcome 'guest', Romeo would have been foolish to assume that every other person at the party was a Capulet or one of their legitimate guests. Whether or not he knew it was a Capulet party made no difference; any party he could crash, others could crash too.

2. You use the word rational so let's try some basic logic. We see by his reaction later on that Romeo had enough good sense to know that a relationship with a Capulet would be difficult, at best, and dangerous, at worst. If he had any inclination Juliet was a Capulet before he approached her, he probably would have done one of two things: kept his distance or hesitated while he had an internal dialogue or struggle. It wasn't just his feelings to consider. If they got together he'd have to, at some point, reveal his identity to her. How would she feel about it; would she want anything to do with him; could her family accept him if she did; how would his own family react; was it worth the risk...?

Since there was no hesitation in approaching her, we can deduce that he never considered that she might be from the 'wrong' family. If it hadn't crossed his mind before, it stands to reason that he'd be surprised when he did find out.

3. If common sense or logic doesn't help, we'll try human nature. Let's say, for a moment, that you're right. Romeo knew or should have known that everyone at the party was one of 'them'; a Capulet and therefore his enemy.

When he laid eyes on Juliet, he was mesmerized and fell for her immediately. Since we all have a natural tendency to attribute negative qualities and traits to the 'out' group and assign positive qualities and traits to the 'in' group; the group to which we belong, Romeo's surprise upon finding out who she was still makes sense.

He hated the Capulets; the 'out' group in the proverbial 'us' versus 'them' view of people. As a result, he would never have considered it possible for someone as captivating; as beautiful; as alluring, and as wonderful as Juliet to be one of them. When he learns or it's confirmed that she is, his natural reaction would be a simultaneous mix of belief and disbelief; which, of course, we call surprise.

However you choose to look at it, it should be clear that Romeo's surprised or astonished reaction to finding out Juliet's identity fits. It was a sincere reaction and not at all unusual in that situation.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]