MovieChat Forums > The Great Ziegfeld (1936) Discussion > Blackface and Whitewash

Blackface and Whitewash

posted 9 years ago by Satantangoandcash
9 replies | jump to latest

I finally got to watch this, the only Best Picture Academy Award winner I hadn't seen, and found it unexpectedly more watchable than some of its fellow winners. I enjoyed Powell's performance, Myrna Loy as a redhead, the real Fanny Brice, the extravagant "pretty girl" number and even the dog and pony show, but the fake Eddie Cantor blackface song and dance was disturbing to see in a Best Picture winner. Maybe it should be looked at as a history lesson - a reminder of the racism of the era. I would also complain about the whitewashing of Ziegfeld's life, which comes across as even phonier than Luise Rainer's glycerine tears, but since the opening credits state: "Suggested by romances and incidents in the life of America's greatest showman, Florenz Ziegfeld, Jr." I suppose I was duly forewarned not to expect a realistic biopic (if such a thing exists.)

[–] njgill 8 years ago

blackface song and dance was disturbing to see in a Best Picture winner.

Have you seen "Yankee Doodle Dandy"? A Best Picture nominee. a dozen yearsa after "Ziegfeld".

[–] Satantangoandcash 8 years ago

Yes, Cagney dances on stage with a whole family in blackface, and he won a Best Actor Oscar for that role!
I haven't seen many of them in a long time, but as far as I can remember, Ziegfeld Follies is the only Best Picture Oscar-winner with an actor in Blackface. Like Cagney's role, it's a depiction of a historical figure who performed in blackface, so that might make it slightly more forgivable than other films that used blackface such as Holiday Inn or Swing Time or even The Jazz Singer.

[–] JaneThree 8 years ago

I saw a youtube montage of "every appearance Judy Garland ever made in a movie." And there she is in tiny braids and the worst blackface you ever saw. Fred Astaire did blackface too. The number he did (Bojangles of Harlem) is spectacular, and people have fallen over themselves rationalizing the blackface, but it was still awful.

Some of the racism back then was beyond belief. Many of the African American actors had to use dialect for their dialogue, whether or not they actually spoke that way. There was this childish portrayal that was mandatory. And in the movie Reckless (1935), there's a moment when all the white characters start imitating black dialect, and I'm thinking - are they SERIOUS? How did the actors agree to do that? But they did.

[–] Eric266 8 years ago

You can't judge an era by the standards of a different one. In the 1930s no one thought blackface or "step n fetchit" depictions of blacks was racist or inappropriate. Plus, this was supposed to be an historical depiction of the time, so blackface was correct. Look at Gone with the Wind and how blacks are portrayed. They are all child-like. By today's standards, that's offensive, but by 1930s standards, that was how they thought blacks acted in the Old South.

My memory foam pillow says it can't remember my face. I can tell its lying.

[–] Satantangoandcash 8 years ago

You're using the argument that is typically used to excuse most horrible actions of the past. But go ahead and judge them by the highest standard of their own era, the core ethic of most religions - "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." They still fail.

And you've got it backwards - The audience perceived slaves as childlike because that's how they were depicted in movies. Writers and filmmakers didn't create institutional racism but they did very little to change it because it wasn't profitable.

[–] JaneThree 8 years ago

Writers and filmmakers CONTRIBUTED to racism, on purpose, to support the status quo. It helps to read film history, learn what the policies were and why they were. Including policies about dialogue. There was nothing innocent, unknowing, or "We didn't think of it that way." They knew what they were doing.

[–] BillyBobLaughsAtTheClowns 7 years ago

Time to ban or burn all of those old movies that are offensive to today's sensibilities?

[–] BillyBobLaughsAtTheClowns 7 years ago

Time to ban or burn all of those old movies that are offensive to today's sensibilities?

[–] JaneThree 8 years ago

It's absolutely not true that nobody thought blackface or step'n fetchit was inappropriate. Black people absolutely certainly did, including black performers, but racism was baked into the movie industry, behind the scenes and in front. The two races could not be shown as equal because the movie industry didn't want to alienate the south. That's like saying nobody thought slavery was bad before the civil war. Also, the "N" word has always been bad, even if supposedly "nice" people used it. It just shows that plenty of nice people didn't have to consider other people before they did something. Now you do.

Read a few interviews by black actors/actresses who worked back then, stars included. Of course the stars couldn't be real stars; they had to be kept in their niche. But they certainly didn't think this stuff was A-Okay.