I don't know from your posting if you're familiar with the censored version or not, but Baby Face features a character who acts as Liliy's (i.e. Barbara Stanwyck's) mentor. He's an older German man, a cobbler, the only man she respects. In the uncensored version he preaches to her about Nietzsche, giving her copies of his books and telling her she should use her power over men to get what she wants. Later in the film, as Lily advances in life by using men, she receives another book in the mail from this man with a passage highlighted, saying she should stamp out all emotion and be ruthless in achieving her goals. In the censored version, some of the older man's speeches were rewritten to emphasize morality, urging Lily to be "clean" and stay on the right path. And when she receives the book in the mail, we now see that the cobbler has inscribed a note in the front, saying that Lily has chosen the wrong path and has used her power in the wrong way. A very big difference in the two versions of Baby Face!
Another change: in the censored version, it's implied, but not specifically shown, that Lily's father has been making money off her by pimping her out to men who want to sleep with her. In the recently recovered version, we watch the whole transaction. We also watch as the sleazy politician who has purchased a night with Lily attempts to grope her, actually grabbing her breast before she fends him off by breaking a beer bottle over his head. (In the censored version, we only see the politician exit angrily, holding his head.) One of the father's customer's refers to Lily as "the queen of the night shift," a line partly bleeped in the censored version.
The uncensored version ends with a scene in an ambulance, as we learn that Lily's husband will probably recover from his suicide attempt, and that she will stand by him. The censored version then adds a tacked-on scene in which two characters discuss Lily and her husband. We're told that they went back to Erie, Pennsylvania to start all over again, and then we see grainy stock footage of steel mills! That bogus ending is not in the recovered version.
There are other differences here and there, but those are the major ones.
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steviedeee
19 years ago
Thanks so much for sharing your insights and observations about the two different versions of "Baby Face".
I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask:
1. I know you saw the film about 2 weeks ago. Do you recall the scene where Lily is yelling at her father, "A swell start you gave me. Nothing but men, dirty rotten men. And you're lower than any of them." In the unedited version was the line "Ever since I was 14" injected after "A swell start you gave me"? Someone had commented that in a trailer that line was in there and I was wondering if it returned in the unedited version.
2. I read the New York Times article where one scene where Lily and her friend try to negotiate the price for the train ride to NY was still missing in the print. I know this is speculation on your part, but do you think that it was filmed and then taken out or possibly just not filmed at all - even though it was originally scripted???
Thanks again for your insights.
Steve
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wmorrow59
19 years ago
First, I'm happy to talk about this film, so you're quite welcome! It was a real thrill to see it.
1. Yes, the entire line "Ever since I was 14 . . ." is there in the uncensored version.
2. The New York Times was mistaken, in this case: the train scene was filmed, and it is present in the uncensored print. The train brakeman is played by James Murray, the husband in King Vidor's The Crowd, and Lily "negotiates the price" with him off-camera while we hear her friend sing "St. Louis Blues." We see only the brakeman's gloves dropping to the floor, next to his lantern.
Before the screening at Film Forum, the film preservationist from the Library of Congress who 'found' Baby Face talked about the movie's history, and he confirmed that the newspaper article was incorrect about this scene being missing. This announcement received a big round of applause!
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steviedeee
19 years ago
Hello -
Thanks so much for your prompt reply. I'm so excited to hear that the "14" line and the train car scene are both included. I can't wait to see the uncensored version.
I think I read that the movie will be available on DVD next year. Boy, that is too long. I live in Los Angeles, so I'm hoping to catch a showing here. Or at least I hope the movie makes it to DVD much sooner.
For what you know, is this newly found version the entire uncensored print? In other words, have any other scenes been heard of that were not in the print you saw?
I wonder if TCM will show it before it gets released.
By the way, did you see TCM's magnificent "Complicated Women" special? There's another film I'd love to see called "The Story of Temple Drake". Sadly, it never comes on TV.
Again, thanks so much for your info. I've been so curious for years about the uncensored version of "Baby Face". And someday soon, hopefully, I'll get to see it.
Sincerely - Steve
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wmorrow59
19 years ago
According to the best book on Pre-Code movies, Sin in Soft Focus (which I recommend highly), a few minor changes were made before the print of Baby Face was sent to the New York State Board of Censors. The book isn't very specific about what the changes were, except to quote a couple of lines of dialogue. One line refers to Lily having had a lot of lovers, and another line apparently was originally spoken by the older bank president who is later killed by his own son; when Lily fakes remorse over her affair with the son, the old man said something like: "Was this your first time?" (Which probably would have gotten snickers from the audience by that point, anyway!) Both of those lines were cut, although I believe the bank president's line was changed to something similar, something like "Was this your first love affair?"
Beyond that, the print that was found was precisely what they sent to the censors, before further cuts and changes were made.
As for that scene in the Ladies Room you asked about in your other note, nothing really spicy was shown there-- Donald Cook walks into the office, looks toward the doorway, and reacts, but nothing is revealed. We're supposed to imagine what he sees. Perhaps this was another bit cut before the film was sent to the NY State Board of Censors, I don't know, but I believe the censored version looks about the same.
P.S. It's been years since I saw the censored version, so I'm not 100% sure about that . . .
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steviedeee
19 years ago
Hi -
One other question. I've been watching my copy of the censored version all day - I just found out about the recent discovery today.
It seems that the scene where Lily takes the guy to the Ladies Restroom for a little "fun" is a bit choppy in the censored version. Was anything taken out of that scene that has been restored?
I think you know the scene, after the two are caught - the man is fired and Lily talks her way out of it and ends up having an affair with the guy who caught her.
Steve
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blissfilm
19 years ago
Hi - Thanks for you enlightening comments. I just saw what seems to be the censored version on TCM. Robert Osborne announced in comments after the film that the original ending was actually that the husband died in his suicide attempt (and she discovered his body), but that Warner Bros. was told by censors that suicide was no longer allowed in any movie. So, the boardroom scene was inserted to show that they'd reformed instead. Quote from Osborne: "Reformation was okay, suicide was not!"
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jayjerry
19 years ago
I watched this last night, too, so I came here to read user comments about the film. Imagine my surprise at all this talk about the uncensored version being found! I'm almost positive Osborne made no mention of this. He suggested the version shown was the only one extant. Now I find the uncensored version has been found and was screened publicly in January at the Film Forum. Surely Turner Classics would want to air this if possible. I certainly think Osborne should have at least mentioned the new find, but perhaps TCM thought people would tune out and wait for the full version.
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tilo_430
19 years ago
yeah i noticed that aswell and osborne did say that they lost the unedited version of this film
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bosochima
19 years ago
I was fortunate to catch the original, uncensored version of this film today at the local movie house (The Music Box in Chicago). At the end they showed the scenes that were added to the film to make it acceptable to the studio. What a great film! Barbara Stanwyk burns up the screen from beginning to end. The subject matter was lurid and controversial, but a much more real and interesting story about sex and morality that anything coming out of Hollywood today. I'm inspired to seek out more pre-Code films.
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cyninbend-149-610489
8 years ago
Nearly a decade has passed since your comments and TCM is showing this film--I just watched it--and it has to be the uncensored version! It exactly matches the comments, right from the beginning with the father in the speakeasy he runs pocketing money from the politician and sending everyone out to leave the vhorrible man alone with his daughter. The man who befriends her teaches her Nietzsche, and there is nothing extra about being "good." Instead, they focus on highlighted language about putting aside feelings or compassion to get what you want. Very Ayn Rand. LOL
There is little in the ladies restroom scene beyond the man grabbing her and her refusing to participate in the large office with no privacy, so she takes him in the restroom. Afterward, we see her fixing her lipstick. The rest is left to our imagination.
Finally, at the end SPOILER she goes to Trenholm's office looking for him, to give him the jewelry and money after all. He's on the floor with a gun, having shot himself but not dead yet. An ambulance is called, and he's loaded aboard. The ambulance technician says they've done all they can for him and he should survive. Her case with jewelry and bonds falls to the floor, open. The guy tells her she needs to pick it up, and she says something about how it doesn't matter anymore. Her husband Courtland(?) is smiling and she hugs and kisses him as the movie ends. So even in this version, there is no successful suicide. Great movie.
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