MovieChat Forums > La passion de Jeanne d'Arc (1928) Discussion > What's wrong with female ratings in IMDb...

What's wrong with female ratings in IMDb?

posted 17 years ago by porcher
54 replies | jump to latest

Hello all.

I am posting this here but it could be posted in almost any great film's board. This has been perhaps discussed before but I couldn't find any real answer for the strange fact that females, and especially females under 18, seem to give the poorest ratings for the most excellent films. Dreyer's Passion is a good example:

92 Males under 18 voted, averaging 7.2
27 Females under 18 voted, averaging 1.7

Is someone doing this on purpose? Signing in with a female-under-18 account and thrashing great films? Take Kurosawa's Seven Samurai for another example (currently top#9):

1,101 Males under 18 voted, averaging 8.6
187 Females under 18 voted, averaging 4.9

The number of females under 18 who vote is always much smaller than that of males, but I am drawn to the conclusion that even this number isn't real, and that at least a portion of these votes *must* be from ill-intentioned people.

If anyone can shed light on this topic, I'd be much obliged.

[–] davejc1886 17 years ago

I don't know. Maybe you should broaden your research. Females under 18 as a group gave Billy Wilder's Ace In The Hole its highest rating of 8.9.

Perhaps it's an issue of style. Dreyer's influence has been technical in nature, creating a language of camera movements and editing techniques. Wilder shies away from fancy camera work and focuses on the story and its pace. Maybe girls are just less impressed with the technical than boys.

At any rate my three teenage daughter love both Dreyer's "Passion" and Wilder's "Ace".

[–] jeromec-2 17 years ago

Interesting question. I asked the same question in a different form on the forum for Bull Durham. What I found on my circles is that females did not like it: they were offended by the Susan Seranden character, whereas the guys were absolutely captivated by the movie. Guys found her to be an ideal.

I asked if there were any women who liked Bull Durham. I found that there were and for almost the same reason my friends and I liked it. So I don't know.

I think the only way you are going to find out the answer to this is to ask a group of 17 year olds to watch it and ask what they think.

I once asked a seventeen year old female student of mine to watch Tim which I really thought she would like. Tim is an early Mel Gibson film and it is a wonderful little Australian masterpiece. She hated it and would not tell me why. I do not know if she could not stand the sentiment or the storyline or the fact that nothing was blown up.

[–] vanityfair_713 16 years ago

I am presently seventeen...and female...and I watched this last year and loved it. Marie Falconetti gives an amazing performance, but what impressed me most of all was in fact the camerawork.

He said it's all in your head, and I said, so's everything--
But he didnt get it.

[–] Trouter2000 17 years ago

Females under 18 are generally interested in sex, clothing and gossip. Art isn't something on their minds and if something comes of as 'boring' to them they naturally give it a 1. Sad, but what can you do? Hopefully as they mature they will change their ratings.

Last film seen: The Passion of Joan of Arc 10/10

[–] major_j 17 years ago

I concur with Trouter2000, females under 18 are mostly unaware of anything outside of fashion and tabloid magazines. That and Oprah. Anything past 6 months ago is too "old" for consideration. So it's not surprising they wouldn't know Art if it kicked them in the face.

[–] tisssssssss 17 years ago

I agree. Females under 18 would probably give Beerfest a 10. Most females under 18 have horrendous tastes in movies and especially music. They'll dress however MTV tells them to. However my main point is they dont know what good films are!

[–] squallseedre4 17 years ago

Nah they're cool, us dudes are maybe more respectful to intelligence though; not that we're smarter, just more open to it sometimes I guess.

Vote for: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047445/ NEARLY IN TOP 250!

[–] sbghobbes 17 years ago

I think that's a terrible generalization. Not only that, but it's sexist, too. Yes, a lot of girls under 18 don't have the best taste in music or movies, but neither do boys. It's because they're young and usually haven't been exposed to more intelligent or artistic forms of expression or they're too immature to appreciate it.

But I can honestly say that my taste in movies and music was absolutely nothing like what you're describing when I was 15, 16 years old. Neither were my friends' tastes in the same things. Our tastes weren't as broad as they are now, but I really think that's to be expected since most people don't come across films like this until college.

Anyway, I think it's sad that age group has give this amazing movie such a low rating, but it's honestly stupid to generalize like that and assume ALL girls must have terrible taste or fit into the stereotype you're describing.

[–] mysweetone 16 years ago

I agree. Plus, it is a judgment based only on 27 votes. That's a pretty low number to make such a broad generalization.

I'm 23 and female...and I can say when I was a teenager I appreciated silent and more artistic films.

[–] magedraco 13 years ago

Boy are you guys out of touch. Teenage girls love Oprah, Beerfest, explosions, and Bratz?
(Respectively, the stereotypical demographics that like those things are: stay at home moms, frat boys, men 18-35, and girls younger than 11.)

As the smallest group on IMDB, it is also the most subject to tampering. The ratio of 1-star troll ratings to real ratings is much higher than any other group.

[–] tonys352 13 years ago

i'm a guy so i don't pretend to know how a female thinks...but from what i've observed girls have a natural tendency to be very critical of other females and since the star of the film is a young woman they probably have issues with her looks or hair or clothing and perhaps think she is too melodramatic or crying too much in the film things like that...

[–] amoebapudding 12 years ago

Yeah, maybe you should just stop talking about how females think, then. I'm sure that most girls wouldn't be critical of her, because her appearance and emotions are central to the story and the time period.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Floepsel 10 years ago

Yes but this movie is not that well known and you only find this if you look for it. So now is the question: why look for art if you hate it? They knew it was going to be an old movie and not a fashion sex etc movie that appeared two months ago in the cinema. I don't understand this.. I've yet to see it but I already know it's not going to be a 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 rating because I'm interested in these kind of movies

Favorite movies/year plus little review: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls070235838/

[–] Lonely_Hearts 17 years ago

Are you kidding? That is probably one of the most sexist things I've ever read.
I'm a teenage girl and I loved the Passion of Joan of Arc.
And who are all those explosion-laden, fart joke filled comedies in the multiplex aimed at? Teenage boys.

On the other hand, if you're joking, it's quite funny.

[–] Trouter2000 17 years ago

I hate to be devil's advocate, but what do you think trip like The Notebook or Titanic is aimed at? Teenage girls. Not all teenage girls are shallow MTV junkies, its just that lot of them are, and the films I mentioned are proof of this.

Last film seen: Bicycle Thieves 9/10

[–] PillowRock 17 years ago

I'll grant you that taken as an overall population, teenage girls *tend* to be pretty shallow and not have all that great of a sense of taste when it comes to "art".

However, I don't think that teenage boys, again talking in terms of *tendancies* of the overall population, are really any better. They're somewhat diffferent in their preferences (again, talking in terms of the average statistics across the entire population), but not any "better".

I find myself wondering whether the rating split between teenaged boys and girls on this (and some other classics) isn't a side effect of another social tendancy among teenagers. It seems to me (though I have research statistics, or anything similar, to back it up) that teen girls are more prone than teen boys to seeing movies *only* because somebody else (whether boyfriend of whomever) wanted to see it.

I would be curious to see if, among the tiny number of votes for this movie from either gender in that age group, a much higher percentage of the boys were the kind of cinephiles who had specifically sought out this movie; while a much higher percentage of the girls were people who never would have watched it in the first place had not somebody else virtually forced them to.

It's just a hypothesis. However, it seems more likely to me than the idea that somebody is specifically trying to make teenage girls look bad by misrepresenting their demographic info on 1 votes.

[–] arian_8769 17 years ago

Okay they like sex,gossip or cloths...but they are really destroying imdb rating system with their votes... they gave Passion of Joan of Arc 2.3!!!If they dont like a silent european movie from 1928 why they even watch it?

[–] spacechair 10 years ago

I'm a fifteen year old girl, and this is my favorite film of all time.
Not all of us are tasteless.

[–] norton3916 17 years ago

I'm just throwing this out as a possibility.

Perhaps a lot of the under-18 females watched The Passion of Joan of Arc expecting to see a strong, heroic Joan leading the French army--a medieval feminist. Maybe they were more interested in Joan's story than an account of her trial and execution.

I have a hard time buying the theory about the females being "forced" to watch the film--after all, if you didn't have any desire to see the film in the first place and found it to be lousy, why would you feel the need to log on to IMDb and rate it? Why would you care at all? Granted, I'm not female, so maybe I just don't understand.

Also, it should be pointed out that females from all age groups rate The Passion of Joan of Arc lower than males. I have absolutely no idea why that is, though, and I'm quite curious to know. This certainly isn't a stereotypical male movie. This isn't a western, war, or action movie--this is a stunningly beautiful work of unbelievable emotion. The stereotype is that women are so much more emotional than men, but after looking at these ratings, I have to wonder if that's really true.

[–] piroguie 17 years ago

I am a twenty year old female and I found the film to be emotionally exhausting. The explorative angles and long, long shots of the actress's moue of tragedy were at first poignant, but quickly became saturated, in a way, and somewhat desensitizing. So, even though I appreciated the film's artistry, I did not enjoy watching it because I felt like a limp rag well before the final scene. My $0.02.

[–] filmluvr81 17 years ago

I think people in general are losing the love for these "simple", yet beautiful movies. I worked at Blockbuster for awhile and it irritated me, I couldn't pay people to watch a great movie. They would ask for a suggestion and I would give them one, and they'd kinda shrug and say "I'll just take Guess Who starring Ashton Kutcher". I think it's hard to find those people who love all movies...especially young people. Our attention spans are growing shorter and everything we watch has to be quick, funny, or overly exciting. I think maybe you just happened on a few movies where it was obviously the females under 18 giving low ratings...I'm sure it's just ANYONE under 18 who has a hard time appreciating these films. I mean, think about it...most of the teens who watch the movies are doing it for a class or something and rush through the viewing just to get the assignment done with no thought whatsoever to what they're watching.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Grendel1950 11 years ago

I think your first paragraph hits it - the Joan of this movie is not a "strong" female character and as such falls way out of favor with modern audiences who almost require their heroines to be "super". I can't think of a movie or TV show in the last twenty years that featured and favored a female who was less than strong, commanding, and able to beat the establishment at their own game. I'm reasonably certain the same group whould find Joan's story on the battlefield much more enjoyable.

[–] Ear_Poisoner 16 years ago

I think that the problem stems from the fact that film tends to appeal to men more than women. Men and women are very different in the way that they think. Yet, most movies aimed towards women sensibilities are not considered cinematic masterpieces, while many of the movies that are popularly great are often times male movies. The films of Quentin Tarantino, Martin Scorsese (except for Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore), or Akira Kurosawa are "guy" movies. They are about mobsters, samurai, and include a lot of violence.

I really cannot say why the female ratings for this film are so low when women are concerned. It seems (like most Dreyer films) pretty asexual. However, I am not a girl, so I cannot give any clear answer. However, it is possible that these are teenage girls that were forced to watch this movie in a class and resented being forced to watch something that they would not generally watch. I am not saying that just teenage girls are would do that, but most people when forced to watch something that it so alien from their norm become resentful about it. I think it just so happens that men are more willing to become film buffs at an early age, and would be more likely to see it with an open mind. After all, look at how many men compared to women vote on this site. I think that IMDb's rating system is not a truly accurate depiction of the differences between male tastes and female tastes, although, it may hint at something.

"So it goes"
R.I.P. Kurt Vonnegut

[–] MisterBix 16 years ago

Perhaps we could agree that females and males under 18 all have terrible taste in everything. Maybe not all of them, but they're the target demographic for garbage like Epic Movie and Bratz.

[–] abrahm 16 years ago

I agree with MBix on this...though I'd have to say my highschool sister actually enjoys the good 'guy movies' (as some of you have called them) i.e. kill bill, godfather, etc, that i've gotten her to watch...i just watched Passion of Joan of Arc for the fist time not minutes ago...that is beside the point. But, don't judge people in groups like that, please....that being said, what teenagers think about films is quite irrelevant... incredibly irrelevant!...if i didn't believe this, i'd have invented a time machine and yelled at my former self long ago

("Once" the best film of the year, out on dvd next tues)

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Bardyllis 16 years ago

First I'd just like to remark that I haven't actually seen the movie, yet.
And second, I am a male.

What if watching a female suffer and die, wakes primal instincts in men that women don't have? And the reason why teenagers give the movie less, I think must have to do with the phase in life they are in. They are shallow.

Just a thought. I guess I should SEE the movie first, though.

[–] arian_8769 16 years ago

Its wierd.
They gave Ace In The Hole 8.2 but they gave almost every other great movie a horrible vote!!! They gave 6.4 to Citizen Kane. And 4.9 to 7 Samurai.
I dont know, i think if a girl under 18 watches this kind of movies she is not a shallow(imagine a shallow girl watching Dreyer s Ordet!!!) girl. But why they give these movies these votes, i really dont know!!! Its so confusing!
***
But to be fair, they are not shallow ; they gave 9.1 to Taxi Driver and 8.5 to Vertigo and 8.4 to Tarkovsky s Mirror(which was really unexpected). And if you look at what IMDb Top 1000 voters gave to this russian masterwork(7.0) you can see that females under 18 are not shallow!

[–] Franco_Zed 16 years ago

One.
perhaps there is something about teenage girls that makes them more likely to give a movie 1 star. Boys might make a decision about 3 stars or 2 stars if they don't like a movie, but girls just give it a 1 and move on. Perhaps.

Two.
But personally I believe there is (also) some tampering going on. Maybe some people want to tamper with the voting results. Since Females-under-18 is frequently one of the smaller demographics, they could make their tampering the most noticeable by artificially feeding in a bunch of 1-star votes from Females-under-18.

What do you think?
Anyway that's my 2 cents.

In related news:
The gender divide on this movie is certainly very stark. It's perplexing.

A movie is not BAD just because YOU didn’t like it.
Exception: My opinion is truth.

[–] Franco_Zed 16 years ago

Further evidence of tampering:

30% of women 45+ apparently rated Spirited Away (Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi) 1 Star. Sure enough, "Female 45+" is one of the demographics with the least results for that film. I really don't believe that 30% of women over 45 really believe that Spirited Away deserves 1 Star. I say: tampering.

A movie is not BAD just because YOU didn’t like it.
Exception: My opinion is truth.

[–] conductress 14 years ago

Yes, it's tampering. This question of 'why are the female votes so low?!' comes up on imdb boards all the time. I'm shocked that so many commenters here failed to notice this pattern and instead decided, on the basis of 27 measly votes, that teenage girls are obviously stupid and shallow. There's no logical reason that teenage boys would be more likely to like art films than teenage girls. Those of you who think this would do well to look around other boards and see this same vote tampering rather than jumping to wildly sexist conclusions.

[–] morganseer 16 years ago

When I was a teenager, I appreciated a lot of artsy films, but I remember I didn't like "Seven Samurai." It just seemed like a lot of dull fighting. Later in life, when I developed a taste for Japanese cinema, I thought I'd give the film another try, and I was stunned by its beauty. Go figure. Tastes broaden. I wonder how many young men appreciate "Doctor Zhivago?"