MovieChat Forums > The Gold Rush (1925) Discussion > a tad disappointed in Charlie's dinner r...

a tad disappointed in Charlie's dinner roll dance


don't misunderstand me, i'm not disappointed in the actual scene. it's the greatest thing in the world ever always. allow me to explain.

I first saw the scene done in Benny and Joon, before I had discovered classic comedy and the silent film legends such as Charlie Chaplin. When I saw Johnny Depp do it, it totally blew my mind and I thought it was the greatest thing i had ever seen. Some time later, i decided to watch The Gold Rush and Charlie's dinner roll dance become the new greatest thing I had ever seen. But I was very disappointed when I found out that he had gotten "inspired" to do the gag from The Rough House, a Fatty Arbuckle (who had performed it) and Buster Keaton (who had written it) short. In the film, Fatty does the exact gag, but he only does it for about 5-10 seconds. Now, comparing it to Charlie's, you could say that Charlie "perfected" it, or he "improved" it, but it still disappoints me because I thought that Charlie had come up with it by himself. I was almost afraid to watch The Rough House, because I was afraid that Charlie had copied it exactly. I was somewhat relieved when I found that he didn't. Even though he disappointed me, I still feel like Charlie deserves a lot of praise for the scene. It's one of the funniest, coolest, most iconic scenes in film history and only Charlie Chaplin could have brought it to such status. Besides, you know what they say, there is no such thing as originality. Everybody stole everything from somewhere. I guess it's not a big deal, but it still bothers me.

reply

I would like to get mad at you and stick up for good ol' Charlie, but your line "it's the greatest thing in the world ever always" cools my jets. It was cool to hear about the history of the dance, from before Charlie with Buster Keaton and Fatty Arbuckle, to after Charlie with Johnny Depp in "Benny & Joon". I didn't know about the earlier instance, so I will check it out. It doesn't dim my revere of Chaplin in the slightest if he borrowed the idea. The two were geniuses and peers, and would act together, as you probably know in "Limelight". Also, according to the Trivia section, Chaplin's roll dance was one of the first instances of rewinding a favorite part of movie to replay it.

Cheers!




The closest movies to my heart: http://www.imdb.com/list/2dvIwYpAmd4/

reply

you can watch The Rough House here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxUl1y3Hw5U
It's a pretty funny film too. Anyway, I can see your point but it just would've made it more special if Charlie had come up with it himself. But as you said, they were two great geniuses and despite being rivals, I think they had much respect for each other. Oh, and they were both fantastic in Limelight. Also, I hadn't noticed that in the trivia section. Very cool! Thanks. :D

-----
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

reply

Chaplin was a genius but let's face it, he was a mere mortal man. No one can be completely "original" a hundred percent of the time, not even Chaplin; but true talent lies in taking whatever you've got (including derivitive material) and doing it better than anyone else on the planet--and therein lay Chaplin's talent.

Whatever you do, DO NOT read this sig--ACKKK!!! TOO LATE!!!

reply

Same applies to Keaton, btw. There are things he specialized in that Chaplin wouldn't be able to do as effectively, and vice-versa. Harold Lloyd was also unique in his abilities. Chaplin, Keaton and Lloyd reign as the trinitarians of film comedy, but each man had his own special talents, characteristics, personality and "take" on life, humor and human nature.

Whatever you do, DO NOT read this sig--ACKKK!!! TOO LATE!!!

reply

agreed. about everything. hahaha. Haven't seen a Harold Lloyd film yet, but have some queued up on my list.

-----
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

reply

It's worth to add that Chaplin's Tramp outfit wasn't all that "original" either; he borrowed heavily from other comedians he'd seen in his youth when he came up with that costume, including the mustasch and baggy pants. BUT, Chaplin is the one we remember, because he did the best act, creating a unique character that was completely his no matter how closely he resembled earlier comedians on a superficial level.

reply

"BUT, Chaplin is the one we remember, because he did the best act, creating a unique character that was completely his no matter how closely he resembled earlier comedians on a superficial level. "

I like that. Makes me feel better about it. haha thanks.

-----
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

reply

The way Chaplin told it in his autobiography (and it's portrayed in the Chaplin movie starring Robert Downey Jr., too), Chaplin threw that outfit together on the spot and hurriedly; the pants had been previously worn by Fatty Arbuckle, other wearables worn by other Sennett players. He didn't wear the Tramp outfit in quite a few of the Sennett pictures until it became apparent that the filmgoers preferred him wearing it. So the story goes, anyway...

Whatever you do, DO NOT read this sig--ACKKK!!! TOO LATE!!!

reply

hm, that's interesting. sounds similar to Groucho's story about his greasepaint mustache and eyebrows. weird coincidence. haha thanks

-----
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

reply

I didn't know that wasn't Chaplin's creation. I feel disappointed too. Even if the other guys in here are trying to rationalize this by saying that no one can be 100% original and whatnot, the disappointment comes from the fact that this is one of his most famous bits. The first time I saw this dance was in a Simpsons episode. I've always thought this was pure Chaplin :/

reply

That's exactly what I was thinking! But these guys do have a point. Anyway, nobody could tell me anything about Charlie that would make love him any less. The guy was just awesome incarnate.

-----
http://classicfilmsofhollywood.blogspot.com

reply

The fact that Fatty Arbuckle said the idea of the roll dance came from and was an imitation of the Tramp's walk solidifies Chaplin's influence.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6fxydAUrWc

He even does the little heel kicks. Regardless, the infamous Roll Dance wouldn't have happened without Charlie Chaplin either way. :-)

"Buck up - never say die! We'll get along."

reply

You do know that most early film comedy has its roots in vaudeville, burlesque and the music halls? Chaplin unabashedly admits that he took much of what he learned from his pre-Hollywood days and brought it with him onscreen.


Secret Message, HERE!--->CONGRATULATIONS!!! You've discovered the Secret Message!

reply

[deleted]