MovieChat Forums > Bronenosets Potyomkin (1925) Discussion > the elephant in the room no one talks ab...

the elephant in the room no one talks about


I finally saw Battleship Potemkin last night on TCM and was amazed by the fact that how the sailors were filmed and idealized, the plethora of phallic symbolism, and yet if you read any review of the film there's NO mention about this elephant anywhere. Even if the film was made 85 years ago and is considered the greatest film of all time and has been studied and viewed endlessly, no one has bothered to mention this obvious detail? Eisenstein was inspired by the beauty and ruggedness of these sailors and is an indelible aspect of the creation of this masterpiece and yet not a peep about it. Amazing.

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I've seen this movie at least three or four times throughout the years (the most recent time having been early this morning) and have never once noticed there being overt use of phallic symbolism. If you're referring to the shape of the ship and its masts, and of the cannons and guns, I don't think it really can be helped in a movie set primarily on a battleship; I don't think there was anything deliberately - or even subconsciously - phallic intended. I agree with you about the beauty and ruggedness of the sailors being showcased and idealized. That said, seeing them looking so strapping, I couldn't help but think more unhealthy and starved-looking young men should have been cast, considering that the sailors' ill and inadequate diet plays such a major role in the film.

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It was deliberate. The imagery is pretty obvious to anyone who's smart enough to realize the openly gay director's output was influenced by his sexuality. See link and scroll down to Eisensten.

http://community.middlebury.edu/~moss/RGC1.html

"For an analysis of homoerotic images in his films (remember the cannons in Potemkin?) see Thomas Waugh, "A Fag Spotter's Guide to Eisenstein," Body Politic, no. 35 (July/August 1977). Some of Eisenstein's erotic drawings were published in Literaturnoe obozrenie: Erotika v russkoi literature (1992)"

There's also:

http://www.countercurrents.org/arts-bergan180205.htm


However, the one aspect of The Battleship Potemkin that has never aroused any censorship is Eisenstein's mischievous homoeroticism, which is more evident to modern audiences than ever. In the 1980s, Nestor Almendros, the exiled Cuban cinematographer, wrote: 'From its very beginning, with the sailors' dormitory prologue, we see an "all-male cast" resting shirtless in their hammocks. The camera lingers on the rough, splendidly built men, in a series of shots that anticipate the sensuality of Mapplethorpe, and at the great moment when the cannons are raised to fire, a sort of visual ballet of multiple slow and pulsating erections can easily be discerned.'

Although subjective, Almendros, and other gay commentators, cannot be accused of special pleading. Eisenstein was a self-confessed phallic obsessive. Knowing this, it is not unlikely that Eisenstein was slyly playing with the slowly rising guns as well as the scenes with sailors polishing pistons in a masturbatory manner.

There are also the fleeting shots of a young man tearing his shirt in fury to reveal his bare chest (a young monk has his shirt torn off him in Ivan The Terrible) and of two sailors obviously kissing as the cannons rise. None of this was lost on the sophisticated festival audience, who gave the performance (film plus orchestra) a standing ovation.

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While I appreciated the hunky sailors and their intimacy with each other, I didn't see much gay or phallic symbolism beyond that. Sometimes a cannon is just a cannon. I would notice sailors kissing, and I don't recall seeing that, so "obviously" is not really a word that applies there. There is a scene near the end where two sailors embrace after the cannons are raised, and one has tilted his head, but it's a hug, not a kiss.

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Well you may not recall seeing it, but there was a shot of two of them kissing and it wasn't a peck on the cheek either, it was a full blown smack on the lips with one turning his head slightly as a lover would do.

The OP lists quite a few corraborating sources for something that supposedly nobody ever mentioned.

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Well you may not recall seeing it, but there was a shot of two of them kissing and it wasn't a peck on the cheek either, it was a full blown smack on the lips with one turning his head slightly as a lover would do.


I think you're reading this wrong. It's a Russian film, not an American one. Even further, it's a film from 1925. In many cultures, men kiss each other on the mouth in greeting, straight or gay, or as a sign of platonic affection. It is not an indication of sexual orientation. Coding for gender orientation or gender identification is not culturally universal and never has been.

As someone pointed out upthread, the Russian presentation of male Soviet workers, soldiers and sailors (or, for that matter, similar iconography by the Nazis or even their Allied foes in the U.S., many of whom were virulently homophobic) was hypermasculine, intended to show these men as young, handsome, wholesome, healthy, strong, brave, and so on--as ideals that other men would admire and want to be, and that women would want to marry. It doesn't mean the artists intentionally portrayed them as homoerotic, any more than idealized Soviet women who were portrayed as strong, stalwart and muscular, in a way that we might today see as "butch," were intentionally being coded as lesbian.

Is it possible that there was some unintended homoeroticism in these images? Sure. But in order to discover and examine it properly, you'd first need to identify and parse out the individual artists' conscious intentions with the imagery.

Look at how Rosie the Riveter is portrayed during WWII. The combination of a desperate need for women in the war effort and a contemporary feminine ideal far curvier than today's preferred anorexic models contributed to an idealized image of a woman who looks *very* butch by today's Western standards. That doesn't mean the artists creating these images were intentionally saying, "Lesbians are going to save the Free World!" These women were definitely intended to be straight.

Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com

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I am so sick, that everything has to have gay undertones these days, it is tedious and quite boring. I think your finding what your looking for. Are you just trying to validate yourself. If your gay, OK, your gay, lots of people are these days, doesn't mean everything has to have a gay undertone, even if the director was gay. Can't he just be a director, who happens to be gay, rather than a gay director, enough already!!!!!!!!!!!

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i think eisenstein was very deliberate in his process and the imagery should not be taken for any more or any less than what it is which is his view of the soviet union. if he used what we would call homoerotic elements then so be it.

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I think that phalluses appear regardless of the sexual identity of the director. Those big guns on the ship, so lovingly swabbed and polished, literally and figuratively represent the destructive and oppressive power of the government that builds and deploys them. The rifles with fixed bayonets are held at crotch level by the soldiers advancing down the Steps and are the same thing. Whether these images are presented consciously or otherwise, they are there, operating on us viewers on several levels. There re, after all, times when a cigar is NOT "just a cigar."

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People read too much of this Freudian crap into things. It's a bit cliché by now. Anything that's longer than it is wide is described as "phallic", regardless of the fact that many, many things are shaped this way, and to make a movie without such an object is nearly impossible. Doesn't mean it's some weird, repressed sexual mumbo-jumbo. Sometimes a ship is just a ship.

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"Sometimes the cigar is just a cigar," as Freud said.

However, Freudian criticisms and the topic of homoeroticism have been explored with this film. When we studied this flick in a Film Theory class I took, we certainly touched on them. However, psychoanalytic theory is still just one of many different critical approaches you could take. All different schools of criticism have the potential to provide new insights, though personally, I take psychoanalysis with a grain of salt.

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There's definite phallic and sexual imagery. The shot where they're cleaning the canons couldn't be more on the head with its allusion to sex. One of the title cards even reads "impotent." There's a definite theme of sexual repression of the masses by the rigorous rule of the upper class. Noticing it has nothing to do with the viewer's sexuality, it says more about his or her awareness. Even the citizens of Odessa have an "orgasmic ecstasy," to borrow an expression from Susan Sontag that she uses to describe the crowds in Triumph of the Will.

I don't see how this is a knock on the film.

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I have no idea what you're talking about. I think the only sexual symbolism is in your head. This is a violent film about violent times from a pioneer film maker.

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why are elephants afraid of mice?

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There are moments which are clearly influenced by the director's homosexuality, but in terms of phallic symbolism...not really :\

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The elephant in the room that no one talks about is rather redundant.

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A jew, a russian, a homo... He wasn't the latter, he remained a virgin till the end of his days.

my vote history:
http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=27424531

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Do you really imagine that being a virgin is incompatible with being homo-sexual?

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