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The Interior Train Moving Exterior Shots, How'd They Do It?

posted 13 years ago by Sproketer
15 replies | jump to latest

In the one-shot, one-camera scenes filmed inside the studio on a set depicting the stationhouse and the mail car inside the train we see the open window with trains going by, or during the interior train shots we see passing scenery, and it is NOT a fake painted cylinder spinning outside the window, but a film of real trains and scenery. My question is this, how was this done? Were they using a double exposure, a process shot, or a rear or front-projection screen? My guess is that they were using a double exposure which was often used in the earliest days of motion pictures, but they did an excellent looking job on this film.

[–] lubin-freddy 13 years ago

My closest guess is rear-projection. I don't think that Porter would have thought of double exposure.

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[–] spartacovitiello 13 years ago

if so, you ought to notice some flikering, as it was impossible to sincronize the camera and the projector. On the contrary, dark room triks where well known at that time.

[–] lubin-freddy 13 years ago

You might be right, which if so, I can only assume that they were using the old stage effect of the rolling background, just like we see in Singin' in the Rain, in the scene in the studio with Gene Kelly and Donald O'Connor.

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[–] spartacovitiello 13 years ago

it isn' a rolling background, the background and foreground elements moves at different speed ( and too fast). Double exposition with a mask was a common trik in the contemporary films of G.Melies.

[–] lubin-freddy 13 years ago

I just think that there's nothing in Porter's work that shows anything like double exposure. Méliès was far away, and in that age influence took more time than today.

The techniques seem different at different parts of the film. The train coming into the station through the office window seems much more natural than the background from the train in the robbery scene.

I'll try to do some research when I have a bit more time.

EDIT - From the Oscar web-site:

With The Great Train Robbery (1903), American Edwin S. Porter introduced visual effects that, rather than trick the audience, added to the film’s realism. Using a matte, a device that prevents a portion of the film from being exposed, he combined footage of a robbery inside a telegraph office with a separate shot of a moving train. When projected, the train appeared to steam past the window as the action took place inside.

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[–] spartacovitiello 13 years ago

double exposition was surely made with a post-production work, not "in camera".
Tree yars later Porter made Dream of a Rarebit Fiend that uses more sophisticated triks.

[–] lubin-freddy 13 years ago

Did you sign up at IMDb just for this subject?

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[–] spartacovitiello 13 years ago

at present I am often on IMDb as I am searching about the beginning of editing.
I saw the question about "the great train robery" ad I ansewerd because I had noticed the trik.

[–] lubin-freddy 13 years ago

I teach film, so if you're doing any research, or need to write a paper, I'll be glad to help.

If you're interested in history of editing, I suggest you also see films by Cecil M. Hepworth. He was an Englishman, who did things that Porter was doing, around the same time, and independently came up with many of the same editing techniques. Watch this, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlhNxHfyWTU&feature=&p=28F81019 9E9814E9&index=0&playnext=1

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] godard17 8 years ago

There was no rear projection in 1903. That was a matte shot done in the camera.

[–] Cineanalyst 12 years ago

It's double exposure. With all due respect, Lubin-Freddy's initial guesses were just wrong. Double-exposure photography predates motion pictures, as it was used in still photography. Edwin S. Porter and just about every other early filmmaker used this trick. Porter had used it several times before making The Great Train Robbery. It's also what is called a matte shot. These can and generally were done in camera.

Rear projection, on the other hand, wasn't used until much later--maybe the 1930s. And rolling backgrounds are obvious when they're used. Keystone used them frequently for their comedies.

[–] lubin-freddy 12 years ago

Is that a guess, or is it documented?

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[–] Cineanalyst 12 years ago

It is documented.

In case you're interested, there are many books on early cinema that detail the invention of film technique. For the early history of the Edison Company, Charles Musser is the best. He covers The Great Train Robbery and the use of double-exposure photography in Before the Nickelodeon and The Emergence of Cienma. There's also plenty about it in books and articles on Georges Méliès (see especially John Frazier's Artificially Arranged Scenes) and George Albert Smith, who were the first filmmakers to use double exposures and other "trick" effects. Additionally, the anthology Early Cinema: Space, Frame, Narrative contains a good, brief history by Barry Salt on the early invention of film techniques.

[–] Beau_Buffet 8 years ago

It's very well explained in this video:

https://youtu.be/H8aoUXjSfsI?t=2m31s