Columbus Day or Indigenous Day - Christopher Columbus Discussion

Please assume that we are not all idiots. To get very technical, there were ancestors of homo-sapiens on the Americas when the continents split from Pangea. There is also the Bering Land Bridge Theory. However, when we are talking about modern civilization (which most of us reside in), we are really talking about Western civilization, and Western civilization finally found its way to the Americas via Christopher Columbus. Yes, I know the Vikings were technically first, but their colonies died out. Western Civilization didn't stick in the Americas until Columbus. I know your kneejerk reaction is to shit on Western imperialism because that is what modern mainstream media spews at you day in and day out, but keep in mind that is the way the whole world was back then (e.g. Genghis Khan, Mohammed, or Attila the Hun), and I am guessing you still *choose* to be a part of Western Civilization, when you could live anywhere. Why?

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

So why are you shitting on native Americans?

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[–] TearofLys (2398) 2 years ago

Point out to me where I am shitting on the "original" inhabitants of the land that eventually became what what is known as the United States of America? Who exactly are these people? Did they conquer people to control the spec of land on the Atlantic coast that Columbus landed on? What about people conquered before that, and before that, and before that? How about you go all the way back to the beginning of fucking time to determine who exactly are the "original" inhabitants of the Americas. If you can do that, I will gladly petition the U.S. government to just hand it all back to those original inhabitants.

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

Oh, I'm not thinking that your, "those naked indians didn't paddle their canoes to Europe" was intended to be a compliment.

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[–] Evoken (1167) 2 years ago

Columbus Day

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[–] Zinger (2163) 2 years ago

It's a celebration of the European culture that built America into what it is today.

That a bunch of diaper wearing idiots were already there is irrelevant.

Are you celebrating the geographical land or the political and cultural entity that exists today?

If the latter, then Columbus.

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[–] onemanarmy82 (1764) 2 years ago

IT IS and WILL ALWAYS BE: COLUMBUS DAY! Fuck liberals and those like them.

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[–] whynotwriteme (7122) 2 years ago

Columbus Day, of course. Weigh the achievements of European Culture and Indigenous Culture as to their importance to modern civilization. It's painfully obvious which has provided more of value.

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[–] orangeflava (1726) 2 years ago

Indigenous day for me since it was already inhabited.

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[–] kwestmo (4114) 2 years ago

Indigenous day should be another day since it would celebrate something different that Columbus stumbling to the Americas (sort of). Until I read your post I never realized both could be celebrated.

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[–] orangeflava (1726) 2 years ago

of course they can!

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[–] liscarkat (16530) 2 years ago

Columbus Day. Indians had been in America for twenty thousand years and were still living in the stone age, slaughtering each other. It was time for change, and the expedition of Columbus started it.

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

So the Europeans were morally superior because they were better at slaughtering each other?

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[–] LanceDance (1085) 2 years ago

No, they were superior because they knew how to make better use of the land, they knew advanced scientific and agricultural techniques, they knew better methods of recording information, they knew how to domestic animals, they had superior methods of transportation, they invented and innovated tools and ideas, and a bunch of other stuff.

They actually accomplished things, and therefore deserve recognition and celebration.

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[–] Burk48917 (10980) 2 years ago

Bingo

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

So you're claiming that native Americans who were less advanced, would never advance any further, and not deserve any recognition or celebration?

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[–] LanceDance (1085) 2 years ago

They hadn’t advanced at all in thousands of years, and hadn’t accomplished anything since they first arrived in the north-western continent. What exactly should we be celebrating?

We can recognize that they exist, and learn about their culture for history’s sake, but that’s it. If there must be holiday, especially a national federal holiday, then there needs to be a good reason for it, and have it at a different time of the year, far off and separate from Columbus Day.

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

Your proof that native Americans had not advanced at all in thousands of years is what exactly?

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[–] LanceDance (1085) 2 years ago

Seriously? It's public knowledge. Textbooks, journals, articles, and museums displaying their overall history, it's all available. If you have evidence suggesting otherwise, by all means, show it. If you’re implying something that goes against historical record, then the burden of proof falls on you.

As it stands, there's no reason to have a holiday based on them. Simply existing is no cause for celebration. Others may have stumbled onto the western continents before Columbus, but it was his voyages to the continents that actually impacted the world, and that's worth celebrating.

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

Then show me your best example of the historical record that native Americans had not advance at all in thousands of years.

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[–] LanceDance (1085) 2 years ago

No, you need to show me proof that they did advance before Columbus arrived, since that's what you're implying. If you want to go against established history, then you're the one that needs to bring evidence.

I repeat, the burden of proof is on you

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

Well no. I asked, "So you're claiming that native Americans who were less advanced, would never advance any further".

Then you responded with;

"They hadn’t advanced at all in thousands of years, and hadn’t accomplished anything" This is your claim.

Then I asked you to prove your claim. You're the one making the claim, so you are the one who needs to provide the evidence.

You're also claiming existence of a theory; going to need evidence your theory exists.

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[–] LanceDance (1085) 2 years ago

I’m not claiming anything, I’m stating historical fact, and therefore I’m under no obligation to show you anything.

If you’re just curious about it, then you can do your own research. If you’re not actually disagreeing with me, then there’s no need to discuss further. If you are disagreeing with me, then you need to state why, with evidence.

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

If you have so little faith in your beliefs, then perhaps you should not post them here.

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[–] LanceDance (1085) 2 years ago

If you have no actual argument, stop wasting our time.

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[–] Ranb (7179) 2 years ago

"Our"? seems you have delusions of grandeur. :)

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[–] Keelai (31885) 2 years ago

Columbus chopped the hands off of Indigenous men, women and children if they didn't meet his impossible quota for finding gold after they warmly greeted him and his men.

He bragged about profiting from 14-year- old Indigenous girls sold as sex slaves.

His cruel behavior practically decimated the entire population in a few short years.

Vikings and other foreigners had explored the Americas and traded with the Indigenous people before Columbus therefore he discovered nothing.

I celebrate Indigenous Day.

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[–] asom (6509) 2 years ago

The indigenous people?? The ones wiping from the face of the earth tribes that dared opposing the mighty Aztec empire? (Or Inca or whatever).

Human sacrifices? CHILD sacrifices? Are you insane or something?

It's not like the natives were were more peaceful or naive or whatever, they were every bit as worse, if not worse, than Columbus ... that was the state of humanity at 1500 ...

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[–] Keelai (31885) 2 years ago

Columbus didn't meet the Aztec.

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[–] millsey72 (9557) 2 years ago

And you know this how?

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[–] jonathan_k80 (6436) 2 years ago

Columbus mainly explored the islands in the Caribbean. The only times he set foot on the mainland was during his third voyage in which he reached the northern part of South America (in what is today Venezuela), and during his fourth voyage when he explored the east coast of Central America (what is today Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua and Panama). In Panama he encountered the Ngäbe people.

The Aztecs were situated further north in what is today central Mexico. The Incas lived along the west coast of South America, where Chile, Ecuador and Peru are located today. Columbus would have met neither group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

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[–] millsey72 (9557) 2 years ago

Well my college professor told me that I should never trust the history I was taught in high school and prior. So I'll have to ask him. If he says Columbus never explored mainland North America, then you would be right

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[–] Keelai (31885) 2 years ago

Most history taught in schools is very limited and whitewashed. I made it my mission to learn the truth.

Perhaps he can recommend a few good history books for you.

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[–] asom (6509) 2 years ago

Yeah, so?

That's beside the point. The "Indigenous people" is supposed to represent ALL the people native to the Americas, not just the Aztecs but including the Aztecs ...

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[–] kwestmo (4114) 2 years ago

Do you have a credible source for those claims? And remember I typed credible

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[–] Keelai (31885) 2 years ago

History books.

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[–] kwestmo (4114) 2 years ago

list a few credible books or you have no sources. I suspect your source is Billy's web site.

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[–] Keelai (31885) 2 years ago

Billy?

The Spanish colonists complained about Columbus' cruelty toward them too! He was arrested and dragged back in chains to Spain where he was stripped of his titles.

Read any Columbus biography for adults which isn't into blind hero worship for the complete truth.

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[–] kwestmo (4114) 2 years ago

So did you read these books? Surely, you must remember some of the titles of the books and and the names of historians who wrote them. Or are you just repeating what you heard from someone who went to Billy's web site?

Could be Billy, Joe, or Ted -just a placeholder name for anu yahoo who builds a web site.

If you have the facts why are you so hesitant to name your credible sources?

Your next post doesn't count if you have to search out the titles of books you never read.

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