MovieChat Forums > Jesus Christ Discussion > Why do you believe in any God and in any...

Why do you believe in any God and in any holy book?


Just wanted to hear some reasons...

reply

Can only speak for the Bible and Christianity. Receiving the Holy Spirit confirmed what I already believed. When I was old enough to entertain such philosophical thoughts, I never bought the notion of everything being created from nothing. I guess believing in a divine Creator was the first step on my journey towards becoming a Christian.

reply

So it's psychosomatic.

reply

I wanted to know how someone starts to believe.
You said believing in a divine Creator was your first step.
Wouldn't it be better if your starting point was not knowing and than moving from there?

reply

If you want to get technical, then the starting point is a blank slate even though we are influenced by our environments as children. When I was old enough to start thinking about these questions, some things "didn´t make sense" to me from the evolutionist perspective. The BBT being one of them and the afterlife was another.

reply

It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in God.

reply

That's simply absurd. Evolution is occurring around us all the time. Belief in a god?? Which one of them out of the 2,500 or so different ones worshiped on Earth?

reply

Micro evolution happens not macro.

reply

Micro evolution becomes macro evolution over time. There is no micro or macro really, it's just evolution. Little changes add up over time.

reply

I’d like to talk to you about this if possible. I was raised to believe as you do and knowledge is power, I won’t make fun of you or be condescending. I don’t think that I’m smarter than you, I just have educated myself on the topic.

reply

I believe in God because he has showed me his presence in my life. I cannot explain to you how he did so. You will understand when he shows you, too, his presence. He will do it when it is the right time for you.

Just a piece of advice: Stay away from religions and 'holy' books. They poison your soul.

reply

The New Age movement is full of demons. Ascended masters are demons. Be careful who you believe is God, loser.

reply

No need to be insulting. The poor guy was just voicing his opinion.

reply

Moonglum, to be fair, his username is "Loser".

reply

Lol I know. It was just funny how his phrasing worked out

reply

True, it was a bit careless, eh. :)

reply

lol.

reply

My goal in life is to one day become a demon. I can't imagine anything cooler.

reply

The Jews are the most fascinating people on this planet. Their journey is inspirational. Almost 2000 years without a homeland. Scattered and persecuted all across the planet. As a people, they are still going strong to this day. Despite everything they've been through, they managed to get their homeland back in 1947.

The ancient Sumerians are gone. The ancient Egyptians are gone. The Philistines are gone. The Greeks are gone. The Hittites are gone. The mighty empire of Roman is gone. Nazi Germany is over with - Hitler did not win.

The Jews are still here. Why and how are the Jews still here, keeping to their old religious traditions? After centuries of persecution, why are the Jews still here? Refusing to go away and fade away like the others that I just listed?

When I began to seriously study the Torah, I was brought through the entire Old Testament. Then, into the New Testament. It makes sense that the Son of God would be a Jew, honestly.

reply

Yeah only today's Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the original Jews from the Middle East.

reply

How are they not? The Jews were scattered in all directions after what happened in 70 AD. A lot of them went to Europe, even some to Africa and Asia. Ashkenazi Jews are not the even the only type of Jews.

reply

Not making any accusations towards you, but this kinda quote sounds like the Hebrew Israelite nationalist mentality. "They're not real Jews, we are." That sorta thing is just silly. How do you have evidence of that? The Jews were scattered everywhere - their DNA is going to be mixed with everyone else's.

Further, now that I think about it - "Ashkenazi Jews are not real Jews" is propaganda for people to feel less bad & guilty about the Holocaust. What other purpose is it for?

Jews don't attempt to be missionaries or converters either. Even if these Ashkenazi's converted and had no DNA from the Levant whatsoever, it simply means that they felt connected to the Torah enough to convert.

reply

I think what makes the Jews interesting is critical thinking, humor and community - their family life and culture and of course thrift and business. The Jews and the Chinese are alike in that, but the difference is between east and west. Chinese are insular, the Jews had to live among all other cultures. It is not their genetic makeup.

reply

They are similar to the Chinese, but different. There's not really a comparison to the Chinese though, because the Jews are not like any other people.

Not to mention that they are influential in all spheres: Jared Kushner, Mark Zuckerberg, Steven Spielberg, Larry Page (Google founder), Susan Wojcicki (YouTube CEO), many many more that I don't feel like listing. But this is a good start.

What is the Jew? The Son of God? A celebrity in every sphere? A persecuted people who finally get their homeland back after almost 2000 years of exile?

reply

The comparison with Chinese is because Chinese go all over the world, live together and do business preferentially with other Chinese, as do Jews. I think that is a significant similarity, but in most other ways they are different, and why.

I think all the stuff you mentioned is the trappings of a family and community based culture.

What I like about the Jewish religion, as it was described by rabbi is that rather than based on any one concept of God ... which is sort of frowned on as no human can know god, the basis of Judaism is "do not do to others what you would not have done to yourself", or the golden rule, "do unto others as you would have others do unto you". To me that is the basics of everything.

reply

True, yes. Both are collective cultures, but still different. I like to think that the Jews have characteristics of all other peoples as well. The Jews are bourgeoisie like Europeans and very spiritual like Africans.


Despite being a Jewish Gnostic who believes in Jesus Christ, I will say that every religion has its own unique/special thing to it. I like the devout practice of ramadan in Islam. I like how ancient Hinduism is and their concept of the Yugas. I like how simple & serene Buddhism is.

The Torah, the Gospels, and my Gnostic material is personally where my home is, personally speaking.

reply

Every religion has a god and a book. But I know for a fact that mine are the only ones that are true!

reply

You are absolutely right!
Why can't everyone have a bit of that wisdom?

reply

Pretty much what the bible says is how I feel about it: " The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

I literally study mathematics, physics and see the immense complexity of laws that govern all, the mathematics and formulas and systems and patterns that we are still discovering and some are so complex only a few specialists can even begin to grasp the math that governs the Earth, motion, planets, stars and the universe. We are still discovering the complex, hidden systems in everything, even the oxygenation systems on the planet, the streams and hidden patterns of warm and cool water streams in the oceans. The immense perfection of flight and birds, the shape of the wing, hollow, light weight bones, aerodynamic shape and feathers...in every fowl. The way they can build a perfect nest with no coaching or training, better than any human could do with a collection of twigs. The immense information in every DNA strand, radar in bats, sonar in dolphins, the way humans are the one and only creature that can understand language, learn math and reason on the level we do. Only one creature upon the entire Earth can do this.

I can just sit and wonder at this amazing Earth and all the life and color and beauty in it, the complexity of the human eye, the human ear, the spark of romantic love, the vastness of the universe.....things unimaginable the size of stars and the distances they are. I am in awe because I know an unfathomable creator thought it up and put it all in place.

And likewise it also says this about those that deny God: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

They look at all creation and say all this matter in the universe just got there somehow...they don't bother considering where did all of this infinite matter just spring forth from and then life just sprang out of it....from nothing.

reply

All very eloquent but it boils down to this: The origin of the Universe is a mystery. And your guess is as good, or as bad, as mine.

reply

Exactly!
Why shouldn't we allow ourselves to just say we don't know how it all came about.
If we don't have an answer we definitely shouldn't make up an answer as God.
Let's explore. Maybe one day humanity will find out 😉

Btw, I have a degree in mathematics, but don't know much biology 🤪 nor physics!

reply

You make the assumption that we can.

There are things in this universe that are beond the realm of human comprehension, and forever will be.

We easily forget this.

Religion fills this void for many.

reply

It just occurred to me that religious believers all use the same logical fallacy in their arguments; namely, "Begging The Question".

For those who don't know what that means, (and there are very many), here's a definition;

"In classical rhetoric and logic, begging the question is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. It is a type of circular reasoning: an argument that requires that the desired conclusion be true."

In other words, religious believers claim that God must exist, because God exists...

The day that a religious believer can convince me that God exists by using some real, empirical proof, is the day I'll believe.

reply

I don't believe in a "god". There is no proof that a "god" exists.

reply

Same reason so many people believe in Socialism or racial superiority.
It's scary to accept how insignificant we are in the Universe. It takes real strength of character to accept that there is just one life and it's your responsibility to live it well. Most humans need to be a part of "something greater".

reply

I don't see it that way.
It didn't take me real strength of character. It has more to do with your upbringing than anything else. I was allowed to think for myself and I didn't fear to ask.
Many people don't have the luxury of freedom and free thinking when it comes to religious beliefs.

reply

I think if there is one thing the last 50-60 years have taught us - it's that freedom is not a luxury. For most people it's a burden.

reply

It sounds pretty dumb, but basically (and I'm speaking for myself only) God chooses to let you feel God's presence, kind of the way you sense when a person enters a room you're occupying.

I've felt God's presence throughout my entire life and continue to carry that feeling without any kind of coercion from my family and friends. I attended church a couple times a year between the ages 4-6; and far from converting me, it really turned me off institutionalized religion. My family aren't church-goers - I only went with my grandmother because she was left to babysit me. My closest friends growing up were Muslim, Buddhist and agnostic, which has resulted in some pretty interesting conversations, but I've never had any doubt.

I consider myself a Christian and I follow the bible - although I do think it's an imperfect book that requires context and interpretation in the reading of it.

reply

Considering yourself a Christian and being born again isn´t the same thing though. James 2:19. "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." Rev 3:16 "So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth."
Not judging, just if you are not, make sure you get right with God before its too late.

reply

I'm not lukewarm in my beliefs, I'm just pretty dispassionate about institutionalized religion and religious organizations. I know baptism is important, and yeah I definitely want to get to it, but it's hard because of the latter.

reply

Just be careful in the false doctrine that water baptism will save you. Only faith in Jesus Christ as your saviour, his sacrifice for your sins are why you are saved. Many, many "Christians" who are church-going and are baptised with water are not saved because their faith is not genuine. The myth of receiving the Holy Spirit/salvation from water baptism is debunked in Acts 8:16. Christianity is also not a works-based faith. Ephesians 2:8-9. I have never been baptised as an adult and I converted by praying and throwing myself at the mercy of God and overnight I received the Holy Spirit. I share your cynicism about organised religions, I am an ex-Catholic living with a family of Catholics and sadly, their faith in Jesus is dead. Indeed I don´t actually attend any physical church, my church are my Christian brothers and sisters that make Youtube videos.

reply

It is a diabolical lie to say that water baptism is not necessary for salvation.

reply

... What ?!?

reply

What don’t you understand?

reply

And we entered the madhouse!

reply