Yes, I think it's another incidence of the old Human need to feel "in control". There have been many similar cases over the centuries. Humans come to think, for one reason or another, that everything is futile; that they are helpless. Helpless against other people (after Wars), and helpless against nature (after Weather Catastrophes). We can distract ourselves with various entertainments, but after a time those no longer provide enough consolation.
So, when somebody comes along and presents us with a truly grandiose "problem" to solve, we leap at it. Some people embrace it so fervently that they abandon friends, family, and, regrettably, civility. They are able to do this with ease because, after all, they're "Only trying to fix a problem". And they're "Concerned for human welfare". Clothed in such righteousness, they can spread scorn and hatred with a clear conscience. Religious missionaries were subject to the same failing.
Most importantly, because it's such a huge cause, it makes them feel useful and not helpless, and everybody wants to feel like that.
But in the end, it's just a Game, (as described in Eric Berne's book, "Games People Play", (which I've recommended before).
Of course there's historical evidence that the earth's climate changes. And there's even some evidence that part of that change might be tenuously linked to surface phenomena, such as forest fires and perhaps even localised pollution from industry.
But read the book and see for yourself if it's a game to start a world-wide "cause" over it.
reply
share
TheAdlerian (2092)
4 years ago
Yo, that was great!
That book formed the now little used therapy Transactional Analysis. I thought that was a bit too much like CBT so I didn't get into it. However, I did go to school in Philly and that was big at Rutgers and so I met some of the top people in that area.
Anyway, what you're saying is great. I created a thread her on the exact same topic. A famous personality theorist named Theodore Millon is an expert of personality disorders. He talked about one type of Borderline Personality Disorder, which I know a lot about, where the angry hateful borderline will join causes. Those causes are designed to seem good but make people feel badly about themselves. That is their way to punish people while looking good.
A Borderline is famous for making people feel awesome, then knocking them down. So, all your climate change followers come to see you, and you give a rousing speech, everyone feels great, then you say---and think about the Earth as you DRIVE back in your CAR tonight and you eat your Mcdonalds! We can never stop! or whatever. Then all your followers feel guilty and terrible for having cars and needs fast food because they are on the road.
That's the part that makes you happy.
I have noted this before about these movements. I have always worked with poor people in usually dangerous areas. There's massive poverty in the US. There's kids with no books, no furniture, who don't know what a banana is, and don't know what breakfast means. That is for real.
You never see movements about this. That is because middle class and rich people could easily destroy a lot of poverty, like over night. That would be highly successful but there would be no payoff of guilt and hate for the perverts attracted to movements in the media.
reply
share
[deleted]
4 years ago
Well I must return the kudos by saying that's exactly right!
I remember your thread mentioning Theodore Millon. In fact I looked him up immediately after I read your thread and looked at all his work. I intended to buy one of his books, but its price was a bit daunting. I'm keeping a weather eye out for a used copy.
In my opinion, Borderline Personality Disorder very likely accounts for a very large percentage of the trouble and discord in human society.
reply
share
TheAdlerian (2092)
4 years ago
I remember talking to you about it now!
He was a fucking genius!
Anyway, I started out my therapist career working with borderline females. They were difficult but as I grew to understand their stories I got a lot of sympathy. I look at them as torture victims, but of course they turn into torturers frequently and that is bad.
I have noted that many people have children they don't really want and that accounts for the high level of them in society. I think it is growing too because the whole single parent thing is getting worse and more sloppy. I have only been in one relationship with a woman that had two parents in the same house, and I am fairly old. I don't know too many younger people with two parents.
The book Freakonomics noted that as abortions went up crime went down. Many males borderlines are criminals. So are females but they commit hard to prove stuff, drug crimes, etc and don't show up on stats. Anyway, the theory is that women abort babies they hate and so if the baby is dead it will not get mentally and physically tortured by the woman. An abused person becomes borderline or antisocial and likely takes out anger through crime.
If there are women willing to kill their baby because they don't desire it, then imagine there are millions who will not. No matter what they say, they still didn't want the kid and their rejection will come out one way or another. That's a set up for the kid to have personality issues.
On top of all of that, there are many millions of men who really don't want the kid and just leave forever or are distant. Even if the woman really the kid, there is the man not being involved. That sends a "worthlessness" message to the kid no much can beat. So, again, that's a borderline thing.
I predict it gets much worse. Borderlines are famous for making their kids borderline, so that's a geometric progression.
Yay!
reply
share
[deleted]
4 years ago
Yes, to all you wrote there, especially this;
"On top of all of that, there are many millions of men who really don't want the kid and just leave forever or are distant. Even if the woman really the kid, there is the man not being involved. That sends a "worthlessness" message to the kid not much can beat. So, again, that's a borderline thing."
Unloving parents can make that message even more destructive if they actively tell the child that he/she's worthless and unwanted. Difficult as that is to believe, some parents actually do that.
This has the effect of making the child self-aware to an almost psychopathic degree. This in turn paralyses him/her, and permanently stunts their mental growth. They simply cannot get past the image of them which has been painted, and is hanging in the air in front of them.
But while they live a day to day life of unanswered introspection, they nevertheless remain intelligent people. It could be said that their continuous examining of themselves actually enhances their intellect. Of course, that, in turn, adds to their suffering because they "know" something's wrong with them, but they cannot figure out what it is.
I must say, Psychology is by far the most interesting discipline there is.
reply
share
TheAdlerian (2092)
4 years ago
Great stuff!
I was interested in psych since about ten years old. My brother was a lot older and I read his college books and he told me about the subject. I thought is was "weird and crazy" back then. When I got older and realized it was "suffering" and not funny, I got energized.
I have known many people who were directly told they were unwanted or a a piece of shit just like their "mom" or "dad". I have seen some truly intense responses to that message.
Before I was a therapist I had a gf who was told by her mother she was an "accident" and that had a very negative effect. My gf was a VERY smart girl and her mother treated her like she was tolerated and didn't exist. That causes some kids to cling to the abusive parent, while hating them. It was a tough relationship for me because I didn't know what a borderline was.
The girl ended up forever single cat lady. I saw her last year and she looks great still almost exactly like she did in her 20s.
I like what you've said about intelligence. I never thought of that and it seems to be true. I have a friend in Philly and she is the smartest and funniest woman I have ever met. She has really strong symptoms of Borderline or Antisocial. Her background is HEINOUS, like it was take me pages to describe all the bad things that happened, but I really respect her brain. I think in part it's because of all she went through.
Great and thought provoking post from you.
reply
share
[deleted]
4 years ago
Your past girlfriend reminded me of a chap I knew years ago, who was the youngest of four children. When he was in his twenties he learned, via his elder sister, that he had been an "accident", in every sense of the word. His sister was privy to more details, which she had learned from her mother, and she told him. Apparently, on the occasion of his conception, the mechanical contraception that was being used, failed. On being told this, his father launched a tired against the mother, saying something to the effect of, "Any other woman would know how to take care of herself!"
I don't subscribe to the pastime of male-bashing that's common today, but I have to say that was an example of the very worst behaviour that I've heard of in a man.
My chum related this to me, without any evidence of bitterness or condemnation of his father. But he was also very close to his mother, and I often wondered how he reconciled that knowledge and incorporated it into his psyche without any apparent difficulty.
But then, some BPD can go undetected because BPD people become very adept at concealing it. They may seem to lack "life skills", but in fact some have quite well-honed expertise in protective pretence.
reply
share
TheAdlerian (2092)
4 years ago
I have no idea why anyone would share that knowledge with their child. It's very crazy and I can't imagine the thought process leading up to sharing this info with a child.
It really has nothing to do with them.
It's like saying, "I got horny because your mom made steak. So, you are steak because of it". That's stupid but people don't tell their kids about positive events such as that so why would you tell your child about a malfunctioning contraceptive? What are they supposed to get from that?
It's just malicious and wanting the kid to know their existence is not wanted.
Anyway, from a psych perspective, if a person learns that and they truly believe that their parent is happy they exist, then that would help prevent BPD. Also, if they heard it one time, it would be a hurtful shocker maybe, but not enough to change your personality. BPD comes from torture where you are getting these messages in many ways over and over and over.
So, your friend my not have it. But, I'd bet a story like that would cause a little PTSD type of situation in his mind. He's not going to forget that soon.
reply
share
[deleted]
4 years ago
Yes, I suppose it must have had some lasting effect on him, since he told me all about it, as an adult. I don't remember the entire conversation, but we were probably talking about women in general and contraception in particular, and it triggered that memory. But of course it must have meant something more than just an anecdote to him, to raise it at all. Although, he spoke about it in a very matter-of-fact way.
So, yes, he very likely managed to assimilate it and come to terms with it. Especially since it wasn't a message that was repeatedly driven home to him. But obviously he never forgot it.
reply
share