The climate is really changing fast and most of the population couldn't care less. Time to act is long past and now our children and our children's children will have to deal with how we let this happen.
shareI think that's her point, though. Not enough people care.
shareTo begin with, Great herself or the people who support her... they don't care.
I mean it.
This is the level of CO2 emissions by country (EU included as a whole).
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png
Changes in USA o EU are mostly irrelevant. China already generates more CO2 than the whole western world together. Have you seen those people protesting besides the China embassy?
Neither me.
I don't know whether there's o there isn't that famous so-called Global Warming. But one thing I know: all this movement is NOT about climate. It's just another white-guilty movement. It's not about climate. It's about white self-blame.
If this was about climate or about CO2, people would support Trump's trade barriers. That is gonna decrease the emission of CO2 more than one hundred thousands Gretas. And however, it's exactly the opposite. The truth is nobody cares about how much CO2 creates China. It's all about self-blame. It's all about us. It's just another fucking white guilty movement.
You do know, there is global warming, it's been a fact longer than you've been alive. The only reason you doubt is because oil companies spend millions to obfuscate the issue and delay inevitable regulation and changes. It's the "Me! Me! Me!" generation at it's best. As for CO2 emissions, you solve big problems the same way you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. All or nothing is a fallacy, not a reason.
shareYou do know, there is global warming, it's been a fact longer than you've been alive. The only reason you doubt is...
Contradicting yourself.
"I don't know whether there's o there isn't that famous so-called Global Warming."
I'd guess it's hard to keep the story straight when you don't really believe it.
Contradicting yourself.
"I don't know whether there's o there isn't that famous so-called Global Warming."
[deleted]
But one thing I know: all this movement is NOT about climate. It's just another white-guilty movement. It's not about climate. It's about white self-blame.
I'm not 'bringing' it. I'm pointing out (and justifying) that it has been there the whole time.
shareAnd I'm saying that is utter bullshit
shareOf course. You have the right to do that. That's called freedom of speech, even though your 'speech' is nothing more than a bold statement.
shareI think suggesting concern about climate change is ‘another fucking white guilty movement’ (itself quite a bold statement) and disregarding the international scientific consensus on the existence of man made climate change warrants nothing but a bold statement. Calling bullshit isn’t exactly invoking the right to free speech, it’s more an observation of a hysterical reaction to what you call hysteria.
shareMore chicken little fearmongering. They sky is not falling. I remember when acid rain was the hot fearmonger topic. You never hear about that anymore. Same with killer bees.
Casting doubt on AGW is akin to casting doubt on the church in more secular times. The arguments for AGW completely ignore the many sound contentions against AGW, just like a religious zealot refuses to believe scientific data that challenges their ideology.
The ice records show the global temp has risen as much as 15C in ~decade, long before humans had any industrialization.
Many variables that AGW proponents outright ignore need to be taken into consideration. E.g. urban encroachment on formerly rural thermometers used to measure global average temperature. Urban "hot-spots" could easily be be causing inaccurate data.
The United Nations Framework convention on Climate Change is pretty unambiguous in its mandate to the I.P.C.C. to make the case for anthropogenic climate change to the exclusion of all other factors. And given that congressional investigations have revealed that Exxon contributed only around $30 million to various groups over a decade, only some of which had anything to do with climate change, and this was the supposed primary source of funding for the nefarious “astroturf” groups that, it is claimed, are misleading the poor gullible public, I would suggest that one consider the billions, yes billions, that the global warming zealots have received in one form or another in the same time period. There is a lot more I could say but due to constraints of time and space that will have to wait for now. I will only say that the treatment of this “disclosure” by the pro-warming factions is a prime example of propaganda in the service of an agenda rather than an attempt to understand the reality of the situation.
(Continued)
AOC and Greta think we will all be dead in 12 years. I'll call that bluff. There is no solid evidence to support that wild contention, and when AOC and Greta go off script they babble and stumble over their words, which is indicative of people, who instead of being educated, are indoctrinated.
If you cannot argue the other side, you should not be arguing at all. I can make a great case for AGW, if I ignore a shit load of data, just as AGW proponents do. AGW proponents cannot even answer simple question supporting their contention, let alone make an argument against AGW using sound data, and even if they could, they likely wouldn't out of the cult-like fear of being ostracized from their religious-like social/political network.
Are we seriously supposed to believe that complicated natural variables that have driven extreme climate change over and over again, long before a significant anthropogenic influence, have suddenly, in the 20th century ceased to operate? Is sea level rising? Well, yes it has risen roughly 8 inches during the past century. This is about the same as the century before. It rose nearly 400 feet at the Pleistocene-Holocene transition ca 12 thousand years ago and has been fluctuating up and down ever since. Not infrequently it has stood many feet higher than present. Are we to assume that sea level would never change absent an anthropogenic influence?
Now let me state for the record: It is my belief that humans ARE influencing the climate in multiple ways, not only through introduction of CO2 into the atmosphere but through deforestation, agricultural and industrial activities, and expansion of urban areas. But here is the undeniable fact: the climate of this planet has changed profoundly, dramatically, even catastrophically and has done so repeatedly, on any scale that we care to measure, and it has done so without any help from humans.
(Continued) Don’t call me a climate change “denier” or even imply the same because that will be a complete mischaracterization of my position on the matter. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the climate changes. In fact, it is my opinion that the real climate change deniers or “denialists” or whatever the hell you want to call them are those who refuse to look at the palaeoclimatological record of natural variability, and choose instead to believe that a slight increase in an atmospheric trace gas portends our doom.
How many times have AGW predictions and models been wrong now?
In March 2000, a writer for the UK’s Independent wrote that “snowfalls are now just a thing of the past,” as Britain was undergoing “striking environmental change” (thanks to selfish humans).
"The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer, and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters, and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable." — from an Associated Press report published in The Washington Post on Nov. 2, 1922.
On July 5, 1989, Noel Brown, then the director of the New York office of the United Nations Environment Program, warned of a "10-year window of opportunity to solve" global warming "entire nations could be wiped off the face of Earth by rising sea levels if the global-warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000. Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of 'eco-refugees,' threatening political chaos."
(continued) The IPCC has also hyped snowless winters. In its 2001 report, it claimed “milder winter temperatures will decrease heavy snowstorms.” Again, though, the climate refused to cooperate. The data from Rutgers’ Global Snow Lab showed an all-time new record high in autumn snow cover across the northern hemisphere in 2014, when more than 22 million square kilometers were covered.
And according to data from the National Operational Hydrologic Remote Sensing Center cited by meteorologist Mike Mogil, “U.S. snow cover on the morning of Dec. 1, 2015 is the highest on record for this day of the year.” In all, 38.7 percent of the United States was covered in snow, surpassing the previous record — 36.5 percent — set in 2006. Worldwide, similar trends have been observed. Global Snow Lab data also shows Eurasian autumn snow cover has grown by 50 percent since records began in 1979.
After their predictions were proven wrong, alarmists claimed global warming was actually to blame for the record cold and snow across America and beyond.
On Jan. 19, 2009, James Hansen, climate expert, firmly declared that President Obama "has only four years to save the Earth".
In 2007, the chief of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) said, "If there's no action before 2012, that's too late. What we do in the next two to three years will determine our future. This is the defining moment."
I am so sick of all the bullshit and hysteria. People need to calm down and think. Do some honest research. The sky is not falling.
And yet, here you are on the internet. Why are you telling us? Our opinion doesn't matter, we are not climate scientists. And you are denier, lets just get that out of the way. Johnny Keyboard yelling about volcanoes, sunspots, airports, and something Al Gore said ... You and your oil company scientist can end this in minute, just publish your research. And don't say they have because all published papers are peer reviewed, checked for errors, and have moved us to this conclusion. Sure, people argue over the details but global warming isn't a theory, it's an observed natural phenomena, the theory are explanations of the various mechanisms causing it. Science theories get overturned all the time, it's happened thousands of times and will happen thousands more. About 10% of what I learned in college is obsolete. So go publish. Go tell the thousands and thousands of scientists who have worked on this for more decades than you've been alive, they forget to account for the sun and volcanoes. Go ahead.
shareTypical zealot response. No facts, only ad hominem.
https://youtu.be/5QyXduteiWE
You should be off demanding that your denier friends publish... Oh wait, Exxon documents show that anthropogengic climate change is real. Oops. Guess deniers didn't get that memo.
shareOnce again, all ad hominem, no substance. Why can't you present facts instead of poorly attempted insults?
https://youtu.be/5QyXduteiWE
https://youtu.be/4JJ3yeiNjf4
Are you suggesting that you've been unable to find credible information and need my help to do so? If so, then I respectfully suggest that you cease posting until you learn how to do research.
shareI m "suggesting"(outright stating) that you have no idea what you are talking about and are instead parroting the religious-like talking points and condemnations the AGW religious ideology had conditioned you into repeating without any critical thought, self-reflection, or common sense.
You have made it extremely obvious in your previous replies which were devoid of any data, facts, or even a sound contention. You are so wrong and ignorant your only debate tool is (very poor)ad hominem.
https://youtu.be/M1VJtER2IUE
So many highly educated people questioning AGW with facts, logic, and sound principals.
AGW sceptics: The data contradicts you on multiple levels and AGW predictions/models have been wrong time and time again. We are in the infancy of understanding the climate change of our planet. More data, debate, and discussion is needed. Current unaccounted variables need to be carefully considered...
AGW zealots: REEEEEEE! The debate is over! AGW is absolutely real! Our planet is burning up! AGW "deniers" are ignorant fools! We only have 12 years left to live! If you don't accept AGW as a fact you are part of the problem! Why are you "deniers" so irrational?!
You don't hear about acid rain because pollution control laws were made and enforced - mostly in Europe. It doesn't mean forests are not dying, or ancient ruins are not being dissolved by the rain any more though. How can you be so dense?
shareNever mind him. He's of the hive mind we'll just have to save along with his betters.
shareAre you serious?
share"Time to act is long past"
Can you cite a source?
Al Gore said almost 20 years ago that if we don't act now, there will be a point where we can't go back. We are well beyond that point. The polar ice is melting, weather is destroying so many lives and the world is still heating up. As I said, it is too late to reverse and seeing that so many are resistant to changing how we live, it just isn't worth fighting for. Just live your lives the best you can until we destroy ourselves. BTW, the rich and powerful all have their underground cities to go to once the shit hits the fan, so why do they need to worry about what happens to the rest of us.
shareI'd rather see something a bit more scientific than Al Gore's thoughts on the subject. You're telling me it's too late doesn't count for much either.
shareYou aren't onboard with the AGW cult, so their inane talking points don't influence you, and rightfully so.
Once you understand that they are essentially a cult(for all intents and purposes), their irrational behavior will make a lot more sense.
Look up Richard A. Muller's comments and read his book Energy For Future Presidents. He was a famous physicist and started as a climate change denier until he and some of his well-regarded physicist friends crunched the numbers and had to admit that global warming was real, and that it tracked 100% with human industrial activity.
shareDoes he address my the question of a timeline? A supposed point of no return?
shareI guess that depends how old you are but I suspect a lot of people on these boards will be affected. They say the end of civilisation is only a few meals away so given the size of the current human population (7.7 Billion and growing - rapidly) how many failed harvests does to push us to edge? And don't assume this is not a 1st world problem - if the great grain belts in the USA fail I don't think the rest of the world will be that sympathetic. Still, there is always Soylent Green.
shareOur children's children's children will look back at this era and chuckle scornfully when speaking about us, the same as we chuckled scornfully at people who used to warn us of the coming Ice Age.
Just like the earth, what goes around, comes around.
You are wrong. Sure that happened in the past, but with populations exploding, droughts forcing people to relocate, wildfires and floods like we have never seen, melting glaciers and many other things; we are on the verge of total annihilation. By the end of the century the human race will be gone. We can't continue to tear apart our eco-system either. The Earth brought us into the world and the Earth will take us out. I love it how some people think they know more than the scientists.
shareAl Gore is in the room, can i get a woop woop.
"The Earth brought us into the world and the Earth will take us out. I love it how some people think they know more than the scientists. "
The same scientists that have told us for the last 50 years that the polar ice caps will melt and we will be under water. On December 14th 2008 Al Gore told us under scientific advisement, those same scientists you are defending that the polar ice caps will have melted in the next 10 years. Yeh they are still there and covered in more ice than ever before.
Scientists have agendas just like everyone else, to say otherwise is naive at best. What if you are a climate change researcher/scientist. If you come out and say that climate change is false and doesn't exist then you are out of a job or your funding is cut. So yes scientists lie, scientists bend experiments so the results skew in there favour.
It's the 97% of scientists argument. Which by the way has been debunked. No one ever mentions is that 97% of all scientists, 97% of scientists they asked that day, 97% of scientists that agreed with the outcome, you get the point. It is much better just to say 97% and everyone just keeps spouting it as fact, which it isn't.
We will not be extinct by the end of the century. That, just like Greta is the same apocolyptic claptrap we hear all the time. No answers, no solutions, just scream.
If you are so concerned, put yourself in a room and slowely die. Just being alive contributes to the planet in some form. Are you gonna stop using gas, electric, your car, going on holiday, buying products you don't need. I'm guessing no. Typical hypocrite if you don't. Start acting on what you preach.
Dude, either way, believe what you want. I am not asking that we do anything, because it is too late to do a thing. I believe that the human race is doomed, but I also don't think we can do a thing about it now. Live your life and enjoy every day. That's all. I'm done discussing this.
shareAs i said, no answers, no solutions, just scream apocalypse.
Typical leftist mentality, no discussion, no conversations, just say what you want, then tell everyone they are wrong and then ignore.
Rinse and repeat on every issue.
Depending on how densely you wanna pack people in, you can fit the entire worlds population into New Zealand, so no where near over populated.
It over already! Give in to Gore's apocalypse. lol...
shareLoL!
shareI am wrong, am I? People were scoffed at for outlandish claims in the past, but that won't happen this time because the end of the world is nigh...
Well, Jeremiah, better not start reading any long books.
The climate is not changing fast. Right now, it's not changing at all. It has always cycled through changes, but that's been going on for a few billion years. It's not our fault, and no amount of taxation, shaming, virtue signalling, and Greta tantrums will have any effect on it. Our children will be fine, and terrorizing them with climate apocalypse hysteria should stop.
shareTell all the people who have lost their homes to storms, tornadoes, floods, and fires that. It is only the beginning.
shareNot only do I find you complaining that "geekdom" is racist, (thank you for deleting your thread), now I find you here as a climate alarmist.
First of all, why are you quoting Al Gore? He's not a scientist, nor were his predictions correct from his movie that made him a boatload of money. Also, if he believed what he actually said, why does he have homes that use 3 times more electricity/sq ft? He did get solar panels that provide 5% of his total electricity usage. That's a lot of fossil fuels being burned by a so called "treehugger". If Obama believes this too, then why did he just buy a $14 million dollar home on the coast? Aren't the sea levels rising?
You do know that the infamous hockey stick graph that Al Gore used was debunked, right? There is no correlation to CO2 emissions and temperature.
Michael Crichton was right. Why would the IPCC adopt a finding without any peer review of the data? Doesn't that make the IPCC questionable? And as questionable as they are, even they dropped the findings of the hockey stick graph. Thus, Al Gore doesn't have anything to back up his claims anymore and yet, here you are. Ignorant much?
People were losing their homes to to storms, tornadoes, floods, and fires, centuries before the discovery of fossil fuel. I guess it was the farting cows.... and maybe a goat or two.
share"Tell all the people who have lost their homes to storms, tornadoes, floods, and fires that."
Do you seriously believe people didn't lose their homes to storms, tornadoes, floods, and fires a hundred years ago? A thousand years ago? Ten thousand years ago? You are so ignorant about climate history and human history that an intelligent, educated person cannot even have a rational conversation with you.