To the Democrats of yesteryear... - Donald Trump Discussion

[–] Burk48917 (10966) 5 years ago

Since the Democrats have signed off on building walls for other countries, and there was never an issue before this (remember, there is already a shitload of wall/fence already up and I don't remember hearing complaints before), it's pretty obvious it's to polarize their voting base to see anything Republican as "racist" and a spite move against Trump for beating them in the general election.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

Not a Democrat, but I know I have reservations giving billions to a game show host who campaigned on building this wall AND HAVING MEXICO PAY FOR IT as the major role of defense when there are better, more effective tools out there. Like guarding the ports of entry against drugs (the "reason" he gave on TV for needing the wall) and also, any idiot who thinks separating families and putting little kids in detention centers really should not have ANY power.

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

I understand your reservations, as they're very warranted (not that my opinion matters), but what exactly changed from within the Democratic party? I don't want to make assumptions, so I would ask for you to further clarify, if you don't mind. If I'm missing something from your post or if I'm simply not comprehending what you've written, please call me out on it as I'm simply trying to find some answers.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

I think, as with a lot of how Trump does things, it's not i what he says but how he says it. He takes reservations about spending 5 billion dollars on a wall that frankly will not solve the problems he says he wants it to solve and starts crying that Democrats want "open borders". Which is a flat out lie. While I feel the left is definitely too soft on the subject, they are asking for SMARTER controls.

And he does this consistently. He delivers a message in the basest, most sweeping generalizations that put people off. He wants to pull troops out of Syria and Afghanistan. In the case of the latter, it's an area a lot of Americans felt we shouldn't have gone into in the first place (and they were sent by a Republican President) and yet, people bristle at how he does it.

The best way I can describe it is an old episode of the Cosby show. Vanessa brings home this guy she got engaged to and the parents had no idea, so were surprised. When asked, the father tells the guy he doesn't dislike him but he doesn't know him. He goes on to ask the guy what his favortie meal was and the guy tells him and the father goes into great detail describing how wonderfully it would all be prepared, getting the guy really engaged. And the the father says "And then I serve it to you on a trash can lid. Not too appetizing, is it? That's how she presented you to us; on a trashcan lid" (paraphrased).

That's Trump. He takes things most people could get behind to varying degrees and presents them in such an extreme that you dig your heels in because he takes it too far.

Tighter borders and better security at the ports to combat illegal immigration and drugs? Okay. But Trump then makes it a "big beautiful wall" that Mexico will pay for, detention centers with children in them and "hordes of terrorists" flooding into our country (despite actual facts provided by his own government). And that's one example of his lying and exaggerations spinning things out of control.

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[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

What you said is very close to my own thoughts on the matter and one of the reasons why I'm an independent. I definitely feel that the left has been going TOO far to the left on several issues and same for the right.

We definitely needed a change after Obama and the ridiculous PC is definitely going too far in our country, but Trump is such a polar opposite to Obama that he's detrimental. We need a more balanced president. Hell, I wish we could have an independent president.

What you said about Trump having good ideas but then turning you off with how extreme they are is something I've felt from the beginning. Donald is going after the PC issue like a kid going after a hornet's nest with a fcking bazooka. When a fly is in your house you don't go after it with a hammer because you're only going to punch holes in the walls/break things. That's the impression I've always gotten from Trump.

We definitely need to tone the PC WAYYYYY down in our country but Donald Trump is NOT the answer to that problem. Trump doesn't just want to scale us back--he wants to scale us back all the way to the stone age. We need BALANCE. I only wish our next president could be balanced. PFFFT!!! I've about given up on that, though.

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

dteam, "Donald is going after the PC issue like a kid going after a hornet's nest with a fcking bazooka." What a calculated, funny, yet truthful analogy! Spot on with your post, dteam.

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[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

Thanks.

This is why it irritates me whenever Trumpers call me a "lib" and "Hillary supporter" just because I hate Trump. It really shows how partisan most Trumpers must be as they immediately assume that, if I'm not with Trump, I'm a democrat. Many democrats are guilty of the same thing.

There are a lot of things Trumpers don't know (or care to know) about me: I'm generally against abortion and only really for it in cases where it's necessary to save a mother's life/some other medical reason. If it's just a case of "I did the deed and don't want it. Abort it" I'm against that. But do Trumpers care? Nope. I must be a Hillary-loving liberal.

Also, I'm all for border security and curbing illegal immigration but I'm NOT for throwing kids in cages, treating illegals like animals, nor do I have any illusions that "an illegal invasion" is our country's biggest problem--mass shootings are.

I don't think everyone needs to have all their guns taken away but I do support some form of limited gun control--maybe even something as simple as yearly psyche checks or something.

I'm definitely middle-of the road as I prefer some left tactics and some right ones. But, oh no--because I hate the orange buffoon I just MUST be a "Hillary lover". Nope. I'm not a liberal or a Hillary fan--I'm just someone who wants a SANE president again. Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime I've ever HATED--like, actually HATED as a president AND a person.

I can't debate with any Trumpers because they all seem like partisan imbeciles who make everything--EVERYTHING--about party. It's ridiculous.

The party system is what is ruining our country, if you ask me.

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

dteam, people like you give me hope that others (such as yourself) are far more reasonable than the mainstream media is trying to lead us to believe. This black and white narrative is very damning. This grey area that most reasonable people live in is far too complicated and rich to simply conclude, red/blue team bad because a, b, or c.

I have to admit, smart posters (such as yourself) have really shined a light on my political beliefs the past few days and I've intellectually been forced to re-tune and re-think a few things. Thanks again, and I really appreciate the time you've taken out of your day to respond.

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[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

No problem. If you see me around here, my behavior is very different depending upon who I talk to. For the resident idiots (namely GD, Thrillhouse, Production and some others) I talk to them like the fools they are.

I'm more than willing to have a serious conversation about all this with anyone who's willing but I have little patience for partisan d*bags.

Nice to meet you and welcome to the sh!tshow we call the "Donald Trump Board". ;)

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

Thanks again, dteam. I look forward to seeing you around the forums :)

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[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 5 years ago

People who are not taken in by media spin will not change their position because Trump is obnoxious when making his point. He's still right. Trump has said that the wall is just one part of comprehensive immigration reform. He's also said in his address that it's a humanitarian crisis because we can't afford to take care of those who are currently in detention. Allowing unfettered access for more illegal immigration will result in many unable to get the proper medical care that they need and put more people making the trek in danger. Trump has also offered to increase border troops, immigration judges, and implement research into many technological advancements that democrats are calling for. The problem is many of the reforms the democrats have been calling for are not practical or still in the developmental stages. The democrats who are calling this a manufactured crisis are far more despicable than Trump. Schumer, especially, who calls the wall immoral, is a giant hypocrite for once advocating for a barrier at the border and then changing his mind when it's politically inconvenient.

And mass shootings, while terrible and more easily preventable, make up but a fraction of the deaths of people in the US. Illegal immigrant crime is more deadly.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

Link to the figures in that last statement?

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

.....any time now.....

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[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 5 years ago

We don't have valid statistics because we don't know how many illegals are living in the US. However, we know that there are illegal immigrants that come to this country who have criminal histories or are gang affiliated. Let me ask you. How many violent crimes is too many? I suspect you won't have an answer. Meanwhile, public mass shootings and assault weapons account for only a tiny portion of gun deaths. Why should only one problem be addressed through legislation and not the other?

We also lack the necessary funding to process all these asylum requests and care for those who are in detention. There is already a huge backlog of asylum cases which encourage more illegal immigration.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

Ah okay.

Who ordered the paranoid xenophobic conspiracy theorist? Your orders up!

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

Plus, he lies. Often. And most people have a knee jerk reaction to out and out lies. And when he's pressed, his stock answer is "A lot of people say" or "I've been told by a lot of people". Like he did recently saying other Presidents said they wish they'd built the wall....because obviously no one would ever think of asking those other Presidents and those other Presidents would never say it never happened.

He just says things to say them, hoping to again spellbind his base.

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

TJ, I think you hit the nail on the head regarding President Trump. I don't think I can agree with you more. Nice analogy with the Cosby episode. Can't believe I understood that as I used to watch the show growing up lol!

I especially love, "That's Trump. He takes things most people could get behind to varying degrees and presents them in such an extreme that you dig your heels in because he takes it too far."

Again, you hit the nail on the head with how I view him and his faults. Thanks for the thorough responses, TJ.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

No, no, no....you're supposed to call me a "libtard" (despite being a Republican from 1983 until 2016) and end your post with MAGA!! Not civility.

Are you new to the internet? There are RULES, man!

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

Hahaha that's great! lol

I just treat people online the same way I'd treat them in person. I have a lot of friends on all ends of the political spectrum, and we all get along just fine. Even acquaintances and most strangers I meet. We disagree, but we respect one another and understand how important and beneficial civil discourse and understanding is :)

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[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 5 years ago

Trump said Mexico would pay for it. He never said they would PREpay for it. No one believed that Mexico was simply going to write a check. Anyway, it's silly to assume that 5.7 billion is too much to protect our border and national sovereignty when we already spend billions upon billions annually on foreign expenditures.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

No....hundreds of thousands thought they would pay for the wall. Not from the results of a reworked trade deal (which should be going to US taxpayers). In fact, Donnie actually brought this up TO the President of Mexico more than once and got resounding refusals each time. It was in the news.

But, you only parrot what the game show host says. Like you JUST did (yes, this was Trumps line of the day...."I never said they'd write a check").

Sad.

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[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 5 years ago

He's on record saying that Mexico will pay for the wall "one way or another". Still, the fact that people keep reverting to this talking point means that they can't defend their position that the wall would be completely ineffective. Even those who support the wall know it is only one part of comprehensive immigration reform. Ironically, those same people calling the wall ineffective fail to give any specifics about how their own measures would help curb illegal immigration in and of itself. I'm all for "technology" as long as it's part of bigger reform.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

He’s on record (his own website!) saying they’d make a big, one time payment.

The wall won’t work. Which is why he didn’t get the funding when he had all 3 branches in Republican control. Even they know this is foolish

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Nine years after this video (from 2006), T-rump made an even better offer to America, and completely changed the dynamics.

He promised he was going to build a big, beautiful concrete wall (because no one can build a wall like he does) and he was going to have Mexico pay for the wall. as he knew first hand 'the art of the deal' and how to negotiate to get his way. His supporters fell for that - now it's time to hold him accountable.

I can't understand why Republicans, and T-rump supporters, do not hold him accountable, and ask him why Mexico is not paying for the wall as he promised. I genuinely can not find an answer as to why no Republicans are giving him a pass on this, and acting like he never said this.

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

daddy, you made it very clear that you don't care about my inquiries and/or validations of your views/talking-points. It's difficult for me to continue to put forth time and effort towards your questions and answers when you simply don't care of anything I have to ask or say. I will not put you on ignore, but from here on out I will not be responding to you as my time is precious to me and instead will focus on those who are willing and open to having civil discourse.

My prediction:

[ - ] Doggiedaddy...(bla bla)

"I don't care."

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I don't care whether you put me on ignore or not, nor do I care whether you respond or not.

#BeBest

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[–] ultravioletx (10212) 5 years ago

Neckkk is such a bullshit artist.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

LOL! Now your on his 'sh!t list' with me. LOL

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[–] ultravioletx (10212) 5 years ago

I'm pretty sure he put me on it like 3 days ago. lol

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

UV, others on here were able to be honest, open, and intelligent enough to have swayed my general opinion about politics and The Pres, genuinely. Others were able to have civil discourse which in turn allowed me to better understand their respective points of view.

You, on the other hand, contribute to the stigma of bad social commentary. Ive tried to have a genuine, open, civil discussion with you, but you resort to ad hominems, then go back and re-edit past posts to further manipulate. To top it off, youre racist enough to think that blacks cannot have my political output and/or beliefs, therefor denying me my own nationality of being black.

UV, youre the epitome of what is further dividing people into a black/white way of thinking and intentionally ignore those of us living in the grey.

I put a lot of effort and time into communicating with others on this board to have a better grasp and understanding of differing points of views. With that said (and assuming you dont care), I will only communicate with those who are open and genuine to having a civil conversation. I will always read what you have to say, but i'll reserve my time and respond to only those who want to make a difference.

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[–] ultravioletx (10212) 5 years ago

You didn't try anything. When I asked you the bathroom question on the transgender topic, you left.

When I pushed you to explain why black people were inherently more violent than white people, you pulled the race card that I should just accept what you say because of your race. This made you upset and leave the discussion.

You don't ever have anything meaningful to say. You pose a question, and when someone gives a nice reply to you, you say "oh how nice of you and respectful" adding nothing to the conversation and then you leave. And if they aren't as respectful, you whine about it adding nothing to the conversation and then you leave.

Doggie made a perfectly reasonable reply to you in this thread and all you could muster was "I'm going to have to ignore you now."

You aren't here for conversation. Either you're here to waste everyone's time or you're here to engage in some passive-aggressive experiment.

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

UV, you've never made me upset, even when you revealed your bigotry. Regarding the trans conversation we were having, I reached the point where I knew you were looking to argue, as you resorted to name calling, so I did what Id do in real life, and left. But to answer yout question, the woman in that picture should use the lady's room. Not so hard, since she's a she, after all.

When I reply with gratitude and dont have anything else to add, its because I don't. When someone shows me my own error and is able to articulate why Im wrong, I concede. What else would I have to offer if I agree, especially if Im wrong?

Im here, number 1, to talk about movies. Number 2, to broaden my horizons and exit the echo-chamber I put myself in.

As for people not being respectful, why should I responde when they obviously dont want to help me? I guess thats reason number 3; to learn what others have to say and to ask for help for information I have a hard time gathering.

I try to conduct myself online as I would in real life. If someone is being rude and disrespectful, Im not going to resort to 5th grade tactics. So, I walk away.

EDIT: In regards to daddy's replies (since you brought it up), s/he's constantly trying derail my original question and instead would rather straw-man. I dont answer his/her question(s) if it has nothing to do with the question I originally asked for the sake of staying on topic. The irony here is that Im completely off topic in my own thread. BUT, you brought up some legit concerns, so I thought id try to answer.

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[–] untildawna (103) 5 years ago

Can I volunteer to be added to your ignore list? Thanks.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Lol!

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

"I ask those of you who are willing to take the time to drop some knowledge to chime in because I genuinely cannot find an answer."

Here is a quote:
The Democrats’ offer to Trump is a continuing resolution on last year’s appropriations act, which provided $1.3 billion for fencing and additional money for other types of border security.

The concept that the Democrats have changed their stance is just more blatant, lying right-wing propaganda, which is all they have left.

The link with that quote is provided in this thread from 35 minutes ago:
https://moviechat.org/nm0874339/Donald-Trump/5c378a8d14375355b5c31d0b/In-2006-Dems-voted-for-the-Secure-Fence-Act-of-2006-not-a-border-wall-as-T-rump-said

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[–] Neckk (342) 5 years ago

Thanks for the information, Frogarama. I will definitely look more into the subjects regarding democrat's stances on fencing and other border type securities. It's just really difficult to weed through the activism to find the journalism.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

It's also difficult to sift through all the lies about Democrats being in favor of open borders, simply because they don't support the wall.

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[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

I don't think our nation has ever been this divided...

While I didn't grow up in the 60's, many who DID stated that things have never looked worse than now. That's saying a LOT.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

Well...there WAS that Civil War we had......

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[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

I remember reading that which only makes me roll my eyes when Donald tries to act as if Democrats want open borders. They were willing to fund border security/discuss new technologies but Donald doesn't want to hear it. He only wants his vanity wall that is simply NOT a solution to border security.

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[–] Gd5150 (10991) 5 years ago

It’s puzzling. And shocking the demokkkrat media refuses to ask their political party why the change?

The answer is the demokkkrats like to talk about border security, but like everything, they only talk.

If said cause doesn’t lead to demokkkrat party power they aren’t interested.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

See my reply above. You are not at all informed. You're just spreading the same bland lies and right-wing propaganda.

The Democrats’ offer to Trump is a continuing resolution on last year’s appropriations act, which provided $1.3 billion for fencing and additional money for other types of border security.

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[–] TJLamb0518 (3316) 5 years ago

You're back! Did the Golden Corral get their wifi back?

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[–] AtomicReturns (1252) 5 years ago

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/23/mick-mulvaney/fact-check-did-top-democrats-vote-border-wall-2006/

The context is important. In 2006, it was a Republican-controlled Congress and Bush Jr. was President.

Republicans wanted to make every single undocumented immigrant a felon (strange, I seem to recall Trump employing undocumented immigrants at his Mar-A-Lago, even giving them fake Social Security numbers....). Well, Dems didn't want that, and the voting on the 700-mile fence and enhanced entry ports was a compromise vote.

It was never as expensive and ambitious as Trump's medieval solution (he criticized the fence as too skinny and incomplete, and wanted pure concrete and taller walls). And yet, illegal immigration was at a historic low during Obama's years. Could it be that Trump was misleading with the facts, and this was never a crisis?

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[–] Burk48917 (10966) 5 years ago

"Fact" checking sites have their own bias. And while I don't think politifact is nearly as bias as Snopes, here is an interesting article demonstrating the issue with anyone claiming they aren't.
https://bongino.com/yes-politifact-has-a-liberal-bias/

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[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 5 years ago

Context is important. Illegal immigration has risen dramatically in the post 2000s.

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[–] Bubbathegut (17215) 5 years ago

They changed their views because Obama was President and now they have changed their views again because of Trump.

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