MovieChat Forums > Donald Trump Discussion > Yup, Trump STILL GOT PLAYED. Summit happ...

Yup, Trump STILL GOT PLAYED. Summit happened and NK still hasn't agreed to concrete steps to denuke.


Since GD5150 thought digging up this post from a month ago would somehow prove I made a false prediction when I hadn't. I was only describing what had just transpired. The summit at that time had been canceled after NK said they would never give up their nukes.

But it's just as easy to argue that Trump got played now as it was back then, so based on the facts it's hard to understand why this post does anything but vindicate my original point.

The reality is that Trump got nothing:

1) What North Korea agreed to is much less than it has agreed to in other NK-US engagements and agreements over the last 25 years.
2) Getting nothing, Trump further conceded an end to US-South Korea military exercises.
3) He also gave the North Koreans a major diplomatic victory by appearing in a major international summit on equal terms with the United States. Trump is showering their dictator with lavish over-the-top praise!

The takeaway is that we are more on the road to accepting North Korea as a nuclear weapons state than making any realistic progress to eliminating those weapons.

He either got played or played himself. So my original point stands.

Original post:

I was really rooting for him on this and it really sounded too good to be true. And alas, of course it was.

Because this is Trump after all, he couldn't get it done before first patting himself on the back and fucking it all up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-southkorea-talks/north-korea-says-may-reconsider-summit-with-trump-suspends-talks-with-south-idUSKCN1IG2ZI

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If this is how it all plays out, Trump went from Nobel Prize nominee (HA!) to laughingstock for actually thinking this was going to happen.

Sorry, and this is not a dig at Trump, but c'mon...did you really think this would happen the way the government was painting it?

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The "government" was not painting it any way ... I'm sure any person with experience in the State Dept. knew immediately how this was going to play out ... and even if all this drama plays out and there is some treaty, it will be broken by North Korea like all the other ones in a few years ... maybe long enough for Trump to flip the bird at the world and pick of a Nobel.

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Ballsy statement given how TRUMP just broke a treaty causing a lot of bloodshed and against the advice of MUCH smarter people than he.

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That is the issue with a lunatic executive. The Founders really never thought the country would have to deal with something like Trump, because of the checks and balances in place so that the Congress would have the ability to get rid of a lunatic President. The problem is that Republicans do not care about the functioning of government, they prefer it to look bad and fail - it supports their corporate libertarian agenda ( read "The Wrecking Crew" by Thomas Frank ) Both House and Senate need to be disastrously corrupt to allow someone like Trump to take office and once he does it is not that difficult to throw a monkey-wrench into the works.

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Well, the Founders did envision the need to remove a lunatic executive, after all they did win a revolution against a monarchical tyrant they called Mad King George. It's also why they laid out the impeachment process in the Constitution as the means to do so.

Unfortunately, the Founders didn't foresee how gerrymandering would so corrupt our political process that it would turn the democratic institution they called the House of Representatives into a farcical satire of its name. Gerrymandering has so grossly distorted district representation that we're left with a bunch of unrepresentative extremists elected to completely safe districts where they cater only to partisans in their own party to keep their jobs.

So yeah that's where we see these Libertarian anti-gov extremists in the House who never have to worry about job security become fully complicit to the cronyism of a corrupt executive like Trump. The Senate not as much since they have to face voters from their entire state.

For our system of checks and balances to work as intended to remove a corrupt executive by impeachment requires our democratic institutions to function as designed. Unfortunately, with extremists leading a majority in the House acting as a 3rd arm a corrupt executive, our checks are broken and there is no accountability.

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Did trump really have a nomination for a Nobel Prize?

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No the republicans wanted to nominate him in hopes he’d win and could lord it over everyone the next 4 years.

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No the republicans wanted to nominate him in hopes he’d win and could lord it over everyone the next 4 years.

Republicans should have learned to advance their agenda by now rather then continuing to feed the fantasies of the great and grand troll trolling in the white house.

Do republicans leaders really think the majority of GOP voters are happy with trump right now? Sure trump has captured 30% of certain middle american demographics but the rest of the GOP voters feel screwed over by the primaries.

Some day all of america will learn to stop feeding the grand troll if they wish to accomplish the interests of the american public rather then the wims of a singular troll acting only in his own interests.

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Trump’s terrible. The GOP in my opinion is a terrorist organization.

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Only thing he'd win is a free entry to prison. His days are numbered

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I wasn't rooting against Trump that he'd broker some kind of mutually beneficial agreement with NK--how could anyone, right or left, root against something that would make this country safer?--but ever since this "meeting" was announced along with all the good things that would come from it, I had my doubts that it would ever succeed (this is Trump we're talking about, after all).

So ultimately, it's disappointing, but not TOO much because it's not a surprise.

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Not at all. I'm just glad he(Kim) showed his true colors now opposed to later.

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Time to send in Dennis Rodman, and maybe Kanye too.

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Time to send diplomats to china to negotiate a new DPRK regime for when kim jong un is toppled.

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Would have been commendable if it happened, but....is anyone shocked? Let's see how Carlson and Hannity spin this for 3to10IQ.

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Once again, demokkkrats and their lemmings on the side opposite the entire world. Lol!!!

#StillNoPlatform
#HateDoesNotCreatePeace
#HateDoesNotCreateJobs

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Everyone was rooting for this, but there is going to be a new word for getting your hopes up based on lies and then having those hopes dashed by a reality that everyone knew all along ... that is, getting Trumped. The man is an evil idiot, but he is smart to be able manipulate a lot of Republicans who think they are smart because he panders to them and strings them along.

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Yeah I agree, it really is his one truly remarkable skill as a demagogue who has an intuitive mastery of how to manipulate his base. He's an idiot savant in this respect.

It's crazy when you consider how easily manipulated they are when in 2009 and 2010 he's actually openly on record praising Obama and how much he liked him when he appeared on Larry King and other times when asked. He didn't actually start with his birtherism until March of '11 as he began to explore the possibility of seeking the Republican nomination.

In fact it was even widely reported last year how Jared had admitted to the editor of a newspaper he once owned that Trump didn't actually believe the birtherism he peddled and only adopted it because he knew Republicans were stupid enough to believe it. :facepalm:

So yeah I do marvel at this one area of his demonstrated precociousness, he's really got an eye for those he can exploit with his BS and knows just how far he can take them for a ride. And yeah, of course they're getting trumped.

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Yawn. This statement from NK is more about managing expectations and reassuring hardliners/doubters in that country. Trump issued a similar threat to pull out of the meeting if it doesn't look like we'll get anything out of it. Trump would be wise to get rid of Bolton though. The man is a dummy.

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LOLOLOLOL! You are such a joke and never fail to embarrass yourself when you make up bullshit about topics you know absolutely nothing about.

NK is a totalitarian dictatorship. There are no 'hardliners' and 'doubters' that need managing in North Korea because that's not how their country or political system works.

North Korea is not Iran, a country that DOES have a legislative council of clerics with hard line and moderate factions the Ayatollah must manage as the unitary executive and power behind the throne.

So your claim there are any public "expectations" to be managed in North Korea with "hardliners" and "doubters" is HILARIOUS in just how ignorant you sound. Any doubters in North Korea are executed in front of an anti-aircraft gun. Lil kim loves the spectacle of that.

Do you really have no shame about how stupid you look when you just make shit up?

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Obama, Bush, and Clinton allow NK to develop ICBMs and nuclear warheads, but somehow Trump is the one who's getting "played"? What a fucking joke. And where do you get the silly idea that dictators don't have to worry about doubters and hardliners? Smart dictators absolutely DO worry about anyone who might challenge their authority, especially from within the military. Try reading a history book dipshit.

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LOLOLOLOL!

This is what you said:

"This statement from NK is more about managing expectations and reassuring hardliners/doubters in that country."

I said it before and I'll say it again, there are NO HARDLINERS and DOUBTERS whose EXPECTATIONS NEED MANAGING in North Korea because anyone that fits that description is executed you IMBECILIC FUCK. That's what his housecleaning rampages are for. He doesn't do it by parsing words in the international arena. You're such a hilarious idiot.

Plus you just exude ignorance about HISTORY, specifically about the HISTORY OF THIS REGIME. This is the game they ALWAYS PLAY. They did it with Bush, Obama, and NOW Trump. They make promises and back out. The only difference is how Trump set himself up to eat shit by so publicly patting himself on the back and his inability to moderate public expectations you DUMB LITTLE MAN!

God you must really enjoy being abused for your stupidity. You've really grown into your role as my personal whipping post.

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I don't even read 80% of what you say because you're such a loon. It's almost like I can see your blood pressure rising in real time. Scary stuff.

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LOLOLOL! I have no doubt you read every word.

I'm having fun. :D

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No, you're absolutely right. Simply executing anyone who publicly doubts the regime is sufficient to guarantee its long term survival. It's not like any dictators have ever been overthrown. You fucking idiot.

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North Korea ALWAYS does this. This is the game they play. They pretend to be serious about negotiations and back out. That's because dictators have the luxury of playing the long game while stalling for time that presidents of the US do not.

North Korea "manages expectations" by keeping its population estranged from the rest of the world while brainwashing its citizens from a young age in a neo-confucian and juche ideology where they're taught authority is never to be questioned and always obeyed.

To think he "manages expectations" of his brainwashed and scared shitless military leadership by what he says in the international arena because he fears overthrow is pure folly on your part. You need to get a far better grasp of what you're even talking about.

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but somehow Trump is the one who's getting "played"?

They were played but not sure if trump is being played that hard. Even now the DPRK is dismantling test facilities. Most likely due to chinas demands rather then trumps though.

Kim seems to have no qualms about executing family members that actually helped install him to power. He's not worried about convincing hardliners, as he's the actual hardliner in the country.

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Yes exactly. Thank you.

He is the ultimate hardliner.

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I'm talking about hardline positions vis-a-vis their relationship with the US. You have no way of knowing where Kim really stands relative to the rest of the North Korean leadership. It's not like these guys are holding press conferences and writing memoirs. They're completely cut off from the outside world.

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So now you're down to defending your claims about Kim's motives based on pure speculation that you now admit you have no way of knowing because they are "cut off"?!?

Not compelling at all. Hilariously weak actually.

At least I cite the hard evidence of Bolton's statements being good reason for his reverse in rhetoric and the past history of his family's negotiating tactic with the US of stalling as a legit reason to think Trump's getting played.

Whereas you cite speculation of a fear of insurrection that there is absolutely no evidence to support. You're surely a stable genius just like Trump. I'm sure he'd be proud of you.

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Yea I noticed that too. ThreeTenToYuma is following a strange pattern of erroneously attempting to shift the burden of proof from the person making the claim onto the person refuting his claim then declaring they have no proof of knowledge about the DPRKs political climate which is stupid as ThreeTenToYumas original claim was he had special knowledge of hardliner politics in the DRPK.

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I'm talking about hardline positions vis-a-vis their relationship with the US. You have no way of knowing where Kim really stands relative to the rest of the North Korean leadership.

Funny cause your assuming that you know kims stance wiithin his leadership, while you assert that I don't.

The difference between you and I is I'm pointing out observable past behavior on kim's part that shows he follows a gangsters method of maintaining control by executing objectors rather then appease them and that kim's sable rattling is in breaking with even his own fathers methods. In the past his father would only threaten south korea for posturing and knew enough not to directly threaten the west with nuclear war but this Kim apparently only learned that lesson just now. Hence the current Kim is the hardliner who just recently is starting to soften up.

"It's not like these guys are holding press conferences and writing memoirs.".

No its the high ranking defectors that are leaking the policital climate of their former country. No one ever suggested looking at the DPRKs press releases (Yes they actually do hold press releases for propaganda purpses) to learn anything about the DRPK.

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I agree with you about Bolton, but when NK wants to manage doubters, they shoot them.

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It's not that simple. Dictators know there is a bullseye on their back at all times, and that most doubters will not make their feelings known. Maintaining the loyalty of the military is particularly important, since that is the foundation of their power.

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Actually it is pretty simple. Bolton started spewing off about the Libyan disarmament model and Kim got cold feet in memory of the fate of the Libyan leader who gave up his nukes.

Your idea he reversed course because he feared insurrection is just another figment in your long line of absurd fantasies.

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He hasn't "reversed course" you delusional man. The meeting is still on. Both leaders want it to happen. You must be so angry about that.

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He did reverse course in his rhetoric and said NK would never give up his nukes.

All you have to do is read the link of the reuters article I cited.

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He hasn't "reversed course" you delusional man. The meeting is still on. Both leaders want it to happen. You must be so angry about that.

Kim certainly wishes he could reverse course. He's declaring he's canceling the meeting cause of the on going military excersises betweek the U.S. and south Korea dispite the DPRK accepting that the US would keep the exerceises going. Kims behavior has been influenced by china as his parent state rather then anything the U.S. has done so it makes sense that Kim is still throwing the finger to the U.S. but weather he keeps the meeting or not is enitrely up to china and china is clearly tired of Kim and is demanding that he play nice. China is not interested in coming to the defense of a man that continues to threaten the world. I really believe even china is contemplating a post Kim regime and by now I'm sure Kim knows it.

Point in fact China seems more worried about using its military to keep refugees from the DPRK crossing into it's southern border should the DPRK draw itself into a military conflict with the US.

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Actually it is pretty simple. Bolton started spewing off about the Libyan disarmament model and Kim got cold feet in memory of the fate of the Libyan leader who gave up his nukes.

Exactly. Kim saw how ghadafi was overthrown and executed and associates that with caving to U.S. Demands so now he's having second thoughts and using the U.S Soth Korean excersises as an excuse. Way to go bolton how the fuck could you have not known the Libyan model was not viewed as a benifitial deal for Ghadafi by the rest of the world. But we can assume China won't support kim backing out of the deal.

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Maintaining the loyalty of the military is particularly important,
Yea maintenance via execution. Regimes like kim's maintain power through fear. Even his own family who are loyal to him have been executed under alleged suspicion they were chinese spies.

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Horseshit! Bolton does what he is told to do. That is what Trump wants, and nothing else but that. I don't blame him. His name is on everything. His plump ass is out there a mile.

Get it the way you want itPERIOD

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Wouldn't you want to bring that plump ass to heel Culburn?

Heeyah! Giddyup cowboy!

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Horseshit! Bolton does what he is told to do. That is what Trump wants, and nothing else but that. I don't blame him. His name is on everything. His plump ass is out there a mile.

We all know trump delegates just about everything out to his staff. That's why most messages from the white house are so disjointed and in conflict with each other. Any one speaking from the white house has no clue as to trumps mindset because a) Trump is lazy and doesn't really set policy. He just states his goals and says "get it down" with no real thought to implementation ever and b) Trump impulsivly changes his mind on due to his emotional instability that causes him to act on every thought he farts out of his head with no fear of consequence.

Trumps apparently too good to worry about anything he ever says let alone dicate what his staff will say. He only cares when they make bigger headlines them him then there is hell to pay. So I'm convinced Bolton spoke on his own.

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Trumps apparently too good to worry about anything he ever says let alone dicate what his staff will say.


Exactly. To think he bothers to micromanage his subordinates on any level is preposterous. His management "style", if you can even call it that, is to browbeat them when things don't go well and he needs someone to blame, and to take credit for it when it does.

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I actually find it on par that giuliani keeps miss speaking to the press with trump admitting giuliani is so new he doesn't have the facts straight yet. Which is really an admission that trump hasn't even bothered to say to giuliani what he wants out in the public. This seems to be the permanent state of the white house actually. I speculate that trump actually does get board of meetings and exits them as fast as he can and schedules very few of them. In his mind the white house should manage itself and his involvment should only be to give him self praise or to state his goals to his staff then its "leave me alone I'm off to the golf course".

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Great point and so obviously true now that you point it out! Haha.

Giuliani had CLEARLY never even consulted Trump on what to say about anything. Trump just had this expectation he would be his "TV Lawyer" and he was just out there learning on the job.

I still would have loved to have heard that dressing down Rudy got from Trump for making Trump look bad on a daily basis that first week which was so epic.

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Oh, please. You swore up & you swore down that Rudy would be long gone by now.

Well, Rudy is still there reading directly from the transcript that the old man laid out for him to play out.

The 45th.

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I admit you're right Culburn, I did long expect Rudy would be gone by now.

So maybe Trump just enjoys watching him go out there and make a fool out of himself and enjoys even more sadistically beating him over the head about his poor performances at the end of the day.

I could see Trump really enjoying doing that while watching the spectacle of Rudy twist in the wind. Couldn't happen to a nicer man. :D

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When the old man is still standing 3 Novembers from now we'll see who's the fool.

You're gettin' shellacked & made to like it. He's playin' ya's like the guy on the corner of 7th Street & 42nd Ave with 3 shells & a pea.

Some day when this is all over you'll be sifting thru the wreckage searching for him and he'll be on the beach somewhere with Mel & Barron.........earning 20%.

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[quote]Oh, please. You swore up & you swore down that Rudy would be long gone by now.[quote]
Something has changed in this dynamic. Trumps pattern is to fire people the moment they are alleged to be responsible for bad press.

"Rudy is still there reading directly from the transcript that the old man laid out for him to play out."
How could rudy's misteps and trumps excuse that rudy was too new on the job ever be benificial to trump's brand?

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What has changed is that Trump is running out of people. He can't afford to fire anymore.

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What has changed is that Trump is running out of people. He can't afford to fire anymore.

I doubt trump realizes that yet, all his decisions seem to be tactical and devoid of long term strategic planning . I suspect he would rather focus on deflecting attention away from rudy rather then draw more attention to it by fireing him. Firing him this early on would just reinforce the media's observation that he is making mistake after mistake, and would be a "scaramucci" incident all over again(sans bizarre self fellatio references). Even now trump is acting like he's intrigued by meeting in the DMZ with Little Kim as a distraction for the media. And knowing trump his liable to do it thinking it shows the world how brave he is while in reality it would just show how trump caved to DPRK demands by crawling up from under a rock to their front porch. And evidence shows trump is currently caving in, 2 B-52 flights from Japan to South Korea that were prescheduled as apart of the U.S. South Korean exercise have been canceled already. The dotards brain is deteriorating.

It seems like liberal media has already been moving away from covering the russian probe while conservative media is now dragging it out. It looks like liberal media has moved on while conservative media seems to be stuck in a vindication loop and refuse to move on to more current events.

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The Ayatollah Obama had no management style. It wasn't required by his Media.

ha!

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Horseshit! The guy before Bolton "spoke on his own." Bolton's mouth moves, yes, but, he's sittin' on the old man's knee and Trump has his hand right up Bolton's back, but, it's Trump throwin' his voice, you can bet your bottom dollar on that, 32.

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Horseshit on you if you actually believe trump bothers coaching anyone on how to implement his policy or speak to the press. Trumps only words after declaring his goals are "get it done" or "Good! Get it done!". If your paying attention you've literally heard this several times on open mics trump's wearing as he speaks to his staff and other republicans right after a press conference. Which is typical of old school american CEOs that seem to think their only job was to hire and fire subordinates for success or failure to meet the CEOs declared goals rather then actually engaging in discussions about implementation of those goals. The other half of the time old school CEOs socially engaging the shareholder board members to maintain their jobs ("Any one for a round of golf?").

Trumps out of the loop on what his staff is doing because that is by his own design. He doesn't want to know what bolton is working on or how he talks to the press. Trump himself considers his staff members as failures when they are not intuitive enough (Or rather clairvoyant enough in my opinion) to know what he would have done in that exact situation.

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The talks will go through as scheduled and this thread will be moot. This isn’t some half assed send Jimmy Carter to give them a billion for nothing in exchange. Or worse, the Obama/IRAN deal of just send them 150 billion for nothing in return.

China, NK, SK, are involved. No one cares about a novel peace prize except the demokkkrat media. That’s why they ask Trump about it every chance they can. And he just fucks with them because he knows it’ll get under their skin.

The left are simple minded people. So easy to manipulate. Look at their obsessive hatred over the last 2 years. Just sheep. Lemmings. Seeing their close minded hate exposed on a daily basis is a close second to the booming economic, social, and foreign policy success Trump has brought to the country.

In June everything will have gone as planned. And The hate filled demokkkrat lemmings will be having tantrums over 10 new flavor of the week nothing burgers.

#CantWaitForSummer

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That remains to be seen.

If Trump comes out of the summit touting a deal in hand, but that deal includes allowing North Korea to keep its nuclear program, then it will be obvious to the world that he got played.

But it will be amusing to watch his supporters stomp their feet and turn beet red trying to justify how the deal is actually a win for Trump.

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This is eyedef. The world is shocked. He was making the same baseless predictable hatefilled predictions a month ago. And now as usual, another demokkkat left wing lemmings is shown to be a complete joke.

#TrumpOrange

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What prediction?

Be specific. I'll wait.

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Read your headline. Speculating NK would not do a deal with the US. And Whoopsie, as those of us who are informed and educated, we all knew the meet and deal would happen. Another demokkkrat media lead fail.

Even when sad hatefilled demokkkrat lemmings like eyedef are hit over the head with reality they can’t see their nose in front of their face.

To be fair, He’s just a product of the hate filled demokkkrat media. This is the problem when people aren’t educated in critical thinking. When they’ve been raised their whole lives to just believe what the demokkkrat left spoon feeds them.

Perhaps one day he’ll wake up. First he’ll have to let go of his obsessive hate. And this is a huge problem for those on the left, because it’s all they have.

#HateIsNotAPlatform

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Ok, I'm reading the headline like you suggested. It says:

"Yup, Trump got played. NK now says it will never give up nuclear program in exchange for economic trade with US."

You understand right, that a prediction is a guess on events that will happen in the future. You do it constantly and I call you out for getting it wrong.

What I did was relay a fact that had just happened. North Korea at that time had said they would never give up their nuclear program.

So again, where did I predict anything?

OMG, I just realized something. So let me get this straight, you've been so upset after all the times I've called you out for your formulaic bogus predictions and pushing fake news that you were obsessing on trying to find at least one time where you could credibly claim I was wrong.

So you dug this up from a month ago and wrote all that in what you THOUGHT was your moment of triumph but STILL TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG!?! ROTFLMFAO!!!

Wahaha! You are just HAPLESS!

I don't know whether to be amused or just look at you as an object of pity.

You are so sad. Even when you're so convinced you're right, you're too inept to know you're not. Maybe I should ease up on you a bit because I'm clearly getting to you. :(*

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Uh oh, now you've gone and done it! GD is gonna call you a "demokkkrat lemming" now!

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Yah I'm shaking. I bet I could code an AI bot with greater language skills that he has. He's got the most unimaginative and repetitive vocabulary of any poster here or on IMDB that I can ever recall.

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When I’m wrong I say I am wrong. You’re absolutely correct, you and your posts are full of blind ignorance. Well done! Here’s some clarification since you seem unfamiliar with the term.

Ig·no·rance
ˈiɡnərəns/Submit
noun
lack of knowledge or information.
"he acted in ignorance of basic procedures"
synonyms: incomprehension of, unawareness of, unconsciousness of, unfamiliarity with, inexperience with, lack of knowledge about, lack of information about; informalcluelessness about
"a statement that shows a complete ignorance of the regulations"
lack of knowledge, lack of education, unenlightenment, illiteracy;
lack of intelligence, stupidity, foolishness, idiocy

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Again, I was revealing a fact that had just happened. You claimed I made a prediction, but after being repeatedly challenged you can't even point out what my prediction was. lulz.

So you're proving you're so in denial you can't even recognize when you're wrong. Cutting and pasting the definition of ignorance only underscores the extreme irony that YOU are the one exposing your ignorance here. ROFL.

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If the libd let's go of hate, they'll have nothing left. They certainly don't have practical ideas, and we know facts scare the shit out of them. Let them cry their way to a second term for Trump. It's all they've got,so they can do it even longer.

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I'm pretty liberal and I'm quite fond of facts and quite disgusted by hate.

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Then you are more moderate than most. I would happily vote for a moderate Democrat if they actually tried appealing to all Americans instead of trying to target their voting base. The party forcing Hillary on the ballet says so much.

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Are you really trying to claim conservatives have some sort of moral high ground with regards to "facts" with trump as president?

LOLOLOL!

The extreme irony of your post is really conspicuous.

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