MovieChat Forums > Joe Biden Discussion > MC is full of losers :-(

MC is full of losers :-(


I am all in favor of democracy and different opinions.

But I don't think historically wrong people deserve a saying. Nobody truly supporting hitler should be given a chance to argue, his position has already lost, with no appeal possible anymore.

All these comments still supporting a loser like trump, who is taking the form and position of a ridicolous, dangerous, evil autocratic villain, are impossible to tolerate any longer.

I spend a lot of time on MC commenting movies, but this fact gives me the impression that I'm wasting my time hanging around idiots who have no clue about anything, let alone art.

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You are not alone in your feelings. It is pretty mind numbing to realize how many people support and believe a crooked con man who has pretty much run everything he has touched into the ground. Hopefully our democracy is something he can’t destroy.

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Thank you, I know that decent, fair people are many and make the majority.
But the size of this at-any-cost pro-trump minority, particularly on a site about film, at this point is saddening.

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Remember there are a lot of trolls and bots on forums like these. From both foreign and domestic sources. Of course the real cult of Trump people sound exactly the same so it's hard to tell.

That said, 71 million people voted for Donald Trump even after the last four years. A minority yes, but a significant minority, looking at all the rage, division, hate, and rank incompetence and thinking Hell yeah, he's our guy! We have serious problems in this country and one election isn't going to solve them. Like I said in another thread, Trump's base has a very different vision of America, one that disgusts me personally and which most of us can't live with. I don't know what you do to bridge that divide.

Not too many years ago Democrats and Republicans could work together. Horse trade. Compromise. Everybody gets some of what they want, no one gets everything they want, nobody thinks the result is perfect but we can all live with it. That's how the system is supposed to work. But the political environment has been hardening because the Republican Party has been getting more and more extreme, shifting toward the lunatic fringe of the far right. Reagan Era Republicans are long gone. Conspiracy nuts like the QAnon people - that's who they are in 2020. They only seem to believe in two things: money and power. That's it. Free flowing corporate/billionaire money and raw naked power by any means necessary. Mitch McConnell has built his whole career around that credo. His party has become Eisenhower's conspiracy to seize power - and no longer stands for anything else. Again, I don't know how we fix this.

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Maybe the second amendment can be of use after all.

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You're blaming the right for the division among parties?

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the Republican Party has been getting more and more extreme


And the Democratic Party is the definition of moderate??? What the hell are you smoking??? The Democratic Party is about 3 riots away from being communist...but you’re right, they aren’t extreme at all...just the Republican Party. 🤣😂🤣

That’s the problem with politics. The blind sheep can’t see their hypocrisy.

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No. Even Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren would be considered center left in most of the industrial world. Social democracy, which Sanders likes to talk about, is not socialism. It's basically our system with more social programs - and social programs are not socialism. Socialism is an entirely different system involving a centrally planned economy, as well as direct government ownership and control of entire sectors of industry. There's generally no free press, no right to free speech or assembly, etc.

Venezuela is a terrible example by the way. Maduro may call himself a socialist but he's really just a military dictator. If you want an example from Latin America, take Cuba. Nobody in the Democratic Party is suggesting we adopt anything like their system. No matter how many times they repeat that alarmist BS on Fox News, it doesn't become the truth. It's just one of those cons they use to scare voters into re-electing noxious individuals like Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, and Mitch McConnell.

Thirty years ago Republicans were center right, and the Dems center left. Both parties have become more conservative since then. But the GOP has wandered completely off the map. Reagan Republicans are gone and the far right, QAnon and other conspiracy nuts, white nationalists, and evangelicals who want to erase the separation of church and state - they're the ones in charge now.

I'm sorry but the party's agenda has been getting more and more extreme. Just as Fox News has gone from being a conservative version of CNN to a crazy propaganda outlet that sounds more like State TV in North Korea than a news network. The GOP has changed far, far more than the Democrats since the early 90's. All you have to do is pull old videos of Congressional debates and interviews with politicians. Republicans weren't the raging, fast talking, overpowering you with volume types we see today whose microphones need to be muted for anyone else to get a word in.

The parties used to compromise with each other. You'd get your members to vote for something the other guys want, and they'd reciprocate with something you want. Everyone brought home something for their constituents. Not anymore. If the Republicans have a single seat majority in either house of Congress while a Democrat is in the Oval Office nothing gets done. Everything is blocked. Guys like Mitch McConnell will not horse trade. They will not move one inch on any issue. If he retains the majority under Biden there will be zero action on climate change. There will be zero voting reforms. There will be zero consideration of any rules to rein in corporate greed. Take any issue the Democrats want to do something on, Mitch will stop it all. That's not how the system is supposed to work. It's not how the GOP used to be. But as I said, they've changed. I've watched it happen during the course of my adult life. I actually voted for some Republicans when I was younger and first started voting. Wouldn't do that now. Most of them aren't even likable people anymore.

Seriously. Read up on the political state of the nation in the early 90's. The Republican Party of 2020 is very different! The Democrats have only changed a little. They were talking about most of the same stuff then. The GOP on the other hand wasn't screaming about border walls, or caging children, or throwing millions out of the country, or being virulently anti-science. Quite the opposite, on all counts.

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Everythng you wrote is clear, well phrased, and correct.

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No it isn’t. It’s biased garbage. 🙄

BOTH parties are full of extremists, like it or not.

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You need to travel around the globe and understand where everybody's at.
Your idea of "socialist" is FARCICAL.
While on the other hand, the gun toting, white nationalists or any of the many other "right wing" extremist factions would be classified as criminal anywhere else in the civilized world.
What you deem as "extremist left" barely qualifies as center in many of the other democratic countries in the G8 or G30.
It's like calling 0ºC "extremely cold" because you are basing your temperature scale on Los Angeles weather. 0ºC is no extreme weather in most of the planet, it's actually quite commonplace.
Get informed and understand where the extremes really are.

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“Get informed” - when anyone says shit like this I know they are a complete snob who thinks they know everything.

You are stating your OPINIONS, and I will say that if you are so worried about how the rest of the world does things or how they feel about our political system or beliefs, you are free to go wherever suits your needs better than this country. Nothing is stopping you. All people like you know how to do is bitch about the country you live in, and generalize damn near EVERYTHING, with the exception of the political party YOU feel is correct.

I say again for the people in the back...BOTH parties have extremists, and BOTH parties are full of obnoxious lecturers who think their side doesn’t include bad people or extremists...you completely politically brainwashed hypocrite.

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So the way you argue your misinformed position is by completely disregarding other opinions and repeat your drivel ad nauseam?
I doubt you're ever gonna evolve like that.
Since "get informed" is too offensive for you, I'll speak you lingo: get your head out of your ass and study, asshole.

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You should read exactly what you wrote to yourself in a mirror, because you’re the one who needs to hear it.

You’re a lost cause if you can’t see or admit that both parties are full of extremist nut jobs. So kindly piss off and move out of the country you socialist liberal extremist. Go find a new country to hate you dweeb.🖕🏻

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That's exactly the only answer your sort knows: "move out of the country". Once you run out of bullshit to parrot, you resort to truncating any argument that you are losing.
You just don't accept how (wonderful) it is to hold a different opinion than your (very poor) one.
We're finally gonna have 4 awesome years with Biden, why move out now?

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You just don't accept how (wonderful) it is to hold a different opinion than your (very poor) one.


You mean my opinion that there are political extremists on both sides of the aisle? I don’t think that’s a poor opinion. I believe it hit the nail right on the head. I still am completely shocked you think EVERY liberal is a good person. It makes me laugh hysterically.

And yes, if someone is unhappy in this country, it is a logical thing to encourage them to find a new country that makes them happier. In your case a socialist country. Liberals are notorious for trying to make everyone else as miserable as they are. I try to encourage them to go make people miserable elsewhere.

4 years of Biden will be the same as 4 years of Trump, only with conservatives bitching all the time about what he’s doing, and liberals defending everything he’s doing, and Biden will act more professional than Trump. The arguing sides will switch places. That’s it. Everything else will be exactly the same.

You act like Biden will take office, YOUR socialism will just fall into place overnight, COVID will just disappear, and we’ll all be holding hands singing kumbaya. Not gonna happen.

Maybe you’ll get some extra “free shit” with Biden in office, because I know how much people like you love to have things without working for them, but that’s probably the only thing that will be different the next four (maybe, if they don’t put Biden in the nursing home first) years or so.

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Why isn't a piece of shit like this banned from the site? He brings nothing constructive to the table. He's better off on Newsmax or some other bullshit right wing sites.

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Ban everything you don’t want to hear? Very American of you. If what I write pisses people like you off, then I’m very happy.

You aren’t even trying to hide your fascism anymore.🖕🏻

Will one person on this entire site admit that there are liberal extremists, or are you all just that brainwashed?

With regards, the “piece of shit” who “needs to be banned” for pointing out political hypocrisy. 😂

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The problem is Bidden appears to be more crooked and treasonous than Trump. Selling out the USA to China and Ukraine through his drugged out son is pretty fucking nasty. This was never an election that was going to give the US the best President because the best option from both parties was trampled over by the crooked old fart during the primaries.

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Trump is better than Biden. Biden is an idiot. I know liberals find it incomprehensible others dare to think differently than they do but we do. We don't accept the insanity that is modern liberalism. Biden should not be anywhere near public office. He has a lifetime of no achievements in public office except somehow becoming a multi-millionaire. Do you realize that if he had saved every penny of his salary over his 47 years he would still have less than his current net worth? How did he manage to do that?

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He could be, sure, believe what you want.
That's besides the point now.
Biden is the new president, trump has lost the election.

Which part of that sentence is too difficult for you to grasp?

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None of it. But learning from liberals, I don't have to accept it at all. In two years, the GOP will take back the House, rendering Biden useless, which is something he should be used to.

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The election for President hasn't happened yet dumb shit. The election everyone has been ranting about was to elect electoral college voters. Whether the voters in the electoral college end up picking Trump, Bidden or Kanye is yet to be seen. The fact remains that these voters in the past have not always voted for the person that they were expected to vote for. Remember Hillary convinced some voters that were supposed to vote for Trump to vote for her in the last electoral college... who is to say Trump won't bribe some of the voters this round to jump ship and vote for him? Or in a state where the election gets held up in court that the legislature will not select people that were not on the ballot as electoral delegates but will vote for Trump... That is a possibility in Pennsylvania where the legislature is republican and could legally do just that. When Congress certifies the selection from the electoral college then the election is truly over but until then who knows what will happen.

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Many consider Kanye an outlier. How do you rate his chances?

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I think most pundits would say his chances are almost as good as Trump's.

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Ahahah!

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How did Biden build his net worth? Speaking fees after he left the VP role under Obama. Smart investments. And regarding the idiot comment, at least President-elect Biden can speak in complete sentences, even with a known speech impediment.

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He would have inside information. Many people in Congress have done that. Biden is an idiot. He wouldn't know how to invest on his own. But since people in Congress are privy to insider information well before the public, he would be smart enough to know when to invest and when to sell.

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Biden's holdings were put into a blind trust with an asset management company. That is what presidents and vice presidents do to avoid conflicts of interest.

Trump, on the other hand, put is holdings into a trust, as per law, but many of his companies were run by his son and were quite obvious. There is no doubt that President Trump enriched himself and his family with dealings with these corporations.

Vice President Cheney was being paid severance by Halliburton/KBR when that corporation was given $7 billion in no-bid contracts. The revolving door was quite lucrative for him.

Bush, Cheney, Clinton, Clinton, Biden, and Obama have all been rewarded after they have left office with huge payouts disguised as "speaking fees". These come from banking, insurance, military contractors, and others. This should be illegal, but it is not.

They all do it. Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. Trump promised to drain the swamp, but he drained it right into the White House. He is just as much part of the problem as the rest of them, and so is Joe Biden.

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No, when Bidden was a senator his holding were not in a blind trust... when he had them in the blind trust as VP he realized he couldn't continue to get rich which is when he used his son Hunter to go be the bag man for all the bribes he was soliciting from China, Ukraine and god only knows what other countries.

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No? No what?

They all do it. They are all corrupt and paid off by the same people.

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Prior to Bidden taking office as VP under Obama, congress was exempt from insider trading laws, that only changed in 2012. Prior to that time when Bidden was in congress he was able to do insider trading that would have made Ivan Boesky blush.

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Congress still does it, and Trump ignored most laws anyway.

Both Biden and Trump allowed their family to grift, and all of the "speaking fees" money is really just a payoff for services rendered.

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And how do we know that? Is it because Biden released his tax returns? Federally, he paid 300k in 2019, or thereabouts? Did Trump pay anything in taxes? I forget.

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So Biden pays 300k... considering he's taking a cut of 10% off of all his little toady Hunter pulls in, which at last count was north of 500 million. So Biden's paying 300k on a 50 million payoff... Doesn't sound like much in taxes now does it.

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It all depends on how you look at things.

I have said this before:

Most people vote for a particular party regardless of who the leader of that party is eg. (potus) whether he/she is a ten year old child or a mass child murdered since almost all decisions are passed along by the other representatives of that party and his/hers advisors.
Basically, a potus for either party has always been their puppet. With that said, there are those who are the exception that choose to blindly worship and praise that leader regardless of everything else which seems to me that these are the people that you are currently focused on, I however, prefer to look at it from the other perspective that they are voting for their party instead.

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^^^"I however, prefer to look at it from the other perspective that they are voting for their party instead."

Exactly. That is what some people don't understand.

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“But I don't think historically wrong people deserve a saying”

Let them say what they want but if it’s political in nature then keep it in the politics forums. Don’t go there if it’s too upsetting.

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But I don't think historically wrong people deserve a saying.


So then, hypothetically speaking, if you lived in a world where Hitler had won 75 years ago, you would be saying the same thing about people who said the Allies were morally right in their war against him? Denying them a voice because in that world, they were "proven wrong by history" because they lost?

History is written by the victors, as the saying goes.

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You don'r even know what "historically wrong" means, get informed and then write, or stfu.

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"Historically wrong" in the sense you are using it, means that history has deemed them to be in the wrong. As history is written by the victors, if Hitler had won WW2, today, you would consider the Allied cause "historically wrong" and you would believe their supporters should have no voice.

The term "historically wrong" does not seem to be an actual term used to describe this idea. "Historically wrong" is used interchangeably with "historically inaccurate", which makes no sense in the context you are using it. You've basically invented your own term to describe what seems to be morally unacceptable causes in history.

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Nope, you ignorant.
It's not about "winning or losing". It's about the result.
Historically wrong are all the events or courses in history that have proven to be leading to path of involution, as opposed to the right path which leads to progress.
One example of an historically wrong course is slavery (anywhere and everywhere it happened).
Another one are environment overexploiters (Easter Island).
Another more recent one is Nazism.

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You mean slavery that the good old bible has no problem with?

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How is the bible ever relevant in a scientific way?

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Regardless, if the Nazis had won, their views would be considered "correct" now, and you would be touting them. And according to your statement, the decolonization of Africa would be considered historically wrong, as it has not led to progress for the nations of Africa.

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I think your definition of progress is lacking its value on a historical basis.
You are valuing progress only from an economical pov. That's not what we are talking about here.
Freedom, democracy, equality, legality, currency, are all historical progresses.
Racism, slavery, subjugation, theft are all historical regresses.
Guess where nazism falls here.

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The point that you seem to miss, is that the perceived quality of progress vs. regress is based on the viewpoint of the victors. Our society's morality is accepted as the best because we were victorious.

The Axis powers did not lose the war due to their (lack of) societal morality, they lost due to being outnumbered and outgunned. Same as the Confederacy. They did not lose because they held slaves. They lost because they were an agrarian society fighting an industrialized society. If the USA had been the slave state and used slaves in their factories to produce weapons instead of the CSA using slaves for agriculture, would the USA have lost simply because they adhered to a regressive policy?

Imperial Rome was a slave owning, undemocratic completely regressive state and they controlled most of the known world for a very long time.

The merits or faults of societies did not factor into their victories or defeats. The best-armed side wins and they write the history books.

And regarding the history of the African nations since decolonization, I would say that in addition to economic regress, they have also regressed in all of the areas you have listed.

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My friend, that is where your ignorance affects your judgment. I don't mean to insult you, but you're coming from a lack of understanding of the full picture.
Human history, unless you blindly see it as a random sequence of events, presents (and represents) the trajectory of progress of our species, from our humble origins to our current events.
This progress is achieved sometimes (too often, unfortunately) through struggles and wars, which are NOT the final result of the progress, but its symptoms.
So, to declare the "winner" of a war as the only interpreter of history is an half true statement that doesn't take in consideration that full picture.
To put it in simpler terms, any temporary regression will take care of itself sooner or later, as long as history is happening.
Practically, in 1942 nazism was kicking asses all over Europe, yet a few years later, no matter how invincible it appeared to be, it was removed exactly because of its lack of social morality and every other regressive values they embraced who had no place to exists by mid 20th century.
Same goes for the confederacy, had they embraced progressive values instead, they would have been the winning side at the end by the mere strenght of support gathered.
Same goes for any empire, or inequality, or violence: it will eventually fade because of progress.

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You are both right. There is no dispute here. To both of you: well put!

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What?! No they aren't. The things whynotwriteme is saying makes me feel sick. Progressive concepts are a part of our evolution as human beings which is why we don't believe that the 'winners' of war aren't considered morally better just because they won. If the Nazi Party had won the war, they would still be in the wrong and people now would know it!

The Spanish Inquisition at the time was considered moral, looking back on it, it doesn't matter how much they conquered, what they did is reprehensible.

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And some things we do will be considered immoral in the future. For example: Eating meat 🍖

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Absolutely!

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Facts!

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It always makes me chuckle when people think that democrats are better than republicans.

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We are not in kindergardent. Nobody here is talking about "better".
That's besides the point now.
Biden is the new president, trump has lost the election.

Which part of that sentence is too difficult for you to grasp?

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According to the media, but they don't elect Presidents. Still have to wait for the official Electoral College count.

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Prediction- Trump will run in 2024 and will win over K Harris.

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Nah, he'll be in prison still. Or dead of too many cheeseburgers.

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By submitting the application to run in 2024, this will immunize him to some degree from a investigation into his business dealings, foreign and domestic etc.

Trump can claim 'another witch-hunt because the Dems are scared' his followers will believe it. Congress will be afraid of Trump's ghost and the possibly of him running in 2024 and will block investigations.

The Democratic party will also be determined to let K Harris run in 2024 (liberals will clamor for it) This will unfortunately be a fatal choice, because many people in America still have a bias against strong females.

Trump has tasted true power, one should never underestimate that fact in his future motivations.

I am a moderate, and not the biggest Trump fan, and I hope I'm wrong in this. There obviously hasn't been enough reflection time for Americans for this prediction to come true.

But one thing is for sure, the cult of personality in a President hasn't been seen since JFK.

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Hey, don't be too judgemental here! The new McPlant is coming to a McDonald's near you and him 🍔

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It's important that Trump be prosecuted for his countless financial crimes. And he will be, the Southern District of New York is ready to move as soon as he's out of office. Within a year or two he'll be on trial. He may only receive a ten or fifteen year sentence when all is said and done, but at his age that's basically life. They need to get him into a prison facility and cut him off from regular communication with the outside world. No phone, no internet. Let him rot and be forgotten.

Of course it won't permanently solve the problem of a sizable minority of the US population being ripe for fascism. Who would've guessed? I'm sorry, but what the Trump voters want is a demagogue. We've had the most useless, incompetent, and corrupt President in US history. All he's done is yell, rage, play golf, watch Fox News, tweet, and use his office to make money and punish anyone who dares stand against him. It's continued to amaze me how low the standards of so many Americans have fallen.

If I got up on stage and strutted and bragged about how wonderful I am, how much everyone else sucks, was rude to foreign leaders, belched in their faces, crushed a beer can against my forehead during a press conference, would people say I was just being unconventional, shaking things up? If Trump is any indication the answer is yes. Is this really all red state voters are looking for? So unconventional is just code for being an asshole every waking second. You can't find a single inspirational quote that's come from Trump's mouth in four years! Not one. Everything he says sounds like it came from a middle school bully. Childish, petty, vindictive. It would all sound perfectly natural in the voice of Eric Cartman. Seriously. Next time the Big Orange Buffoon speaks imagine Cartman's voice and tell me I'm wrong.

Do Republican voters actually not realize this is all he is? That there's nothing more to him than the rallies? Do they not see that he almost never tells the truth? I don't get it. The desire for change I understand. I want that too. Just not his type of change. He's the poster child for the billionaire class - everything he's done in office has benefited the wealthy elite and big corporations, and hurt everyone else. Yet in some parts of the country those very people he hurts are his biggest supporters. Sociologists and historians are going to have a field day for years trying to analyze that.

Maybe the problem is, too many of them listen to what HE says he's done instead of doing their own homework. He takes credit for the actions of others, even Barack Obama who he hates for no good reason, while dodging any blame for his own failures. All his mistakes are someone else's fault. And Fox serves as his mouthpiece. They shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a news network. At one time they were basically a conservative version of CNN, but not anymore. Now they're pure partisan propaganda.

Republican voters and Republican politicians are two different things though. I don't think most of said voters truly understand that. These fakers get up there and scare them with BS, warning about socialism and "They're comin' for yer guns!", but when they get to Washington they do what Republican politicians always do. Work for the wealthy donors. Literally every single thing they do is for corporations and the rich. Not a single thing for the little guy. I'm reminded of that scene in Animal House where the frat is doing their initiation, and a brother in his underwear is being paddled on the ass. Every time he says "Thank you sir, may I have another?". Just like every four years the people in red states re-elect guys like Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell to go back and screw them over again.

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