MovieChat Forums > Joe Biden Discussion > Not A Fan (And He Has Major Baggage) But...

Not A Fan (And He Has Major Baggage) But Needs To Run | Everything He Says Is Real, Not Scripted/Rehearsed


I agree with the hint in the article that once again, Democrats are right on issues but dead wrong on the language. And once again, outside of speeches, Biden talks rust belt blue collar Pennsylvania Ohio Michigan coal mine factory real, not condescending or rehearsed.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/ncr-today/democratic-party-needs-joe-biden-run-president

Competence. Experience. Authenticity. Highly qualified. Well-regarded in the African-American community. Well-liked by American workers — think Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Pushed President Barack Obama to evolve more quickly in promoting marriage between gay and lesbian members of the community. Knowledgeable on foreign affairs. Moderately progressive.

What's not to like?

The Democratic field has a very progressive cast to it right now. That's good. I think Democrats are pretty much all progressive. Joe Biden is certainly a progressive. The question, though, is what is meant by progressive.

I hear too many Democratic pundits on television espousing the far-left edges of the progressive agenda. Medicare for all. A wealth tax on billionaires. Abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Etc. I'm a pretty liberal guy. In fact, I don't necessarily disagree with any of these points. I just believe you have to crawl before you can walk.

It is necessary to shore up the Affordable Health Care Law before you can talk about Medicare for all. The worst parts of the unfortunate tax law passed by the Trump administration need to be corrected before we can talk about confiscating money from billionaires. Why would we even consider abolishing ICE right now? Of course, there are terrible abuses that need to be corrected, but the notion that we don't need security to protect our border is a nonstarter in our country.

It was my understanding that the No. 1 priority for Democrats this election cycle was beating Donald Trump. I don't think many on the left are considering that reality when they fantasize over turning our country into another European socialist government. It sounds very Trumpian to me to forget where 40 percent of the country is ideologically and to impose our will on them because we know better.

We are being told that the country is moving to the left and is ready to embrace Medicare for all, and a high tax on billionaires. Maybe so, but these are things that need to be approached on a gradual and responsible basis, not recklessly announced as campaign promises. Even in the effort to increase the minimum wage, most states have used a gradual approach by increasing the minimum wage to $15 over a period of years.

Unfortunately, the growing Democratic field of candidates is locking itself into a litmus test that is producing an unseemly conformity. There is not only room for a moderate lane but a need for one. Former Vice President Biden is fully capable of making that case and appealing to portions of the electorate needed to win, without alienating the more progressive wing of the party.

An arrogant and aggressive push for an over-the-top progressive agenda is not a way to win an election.
I believe it also shows a lack of understanding of Democratic voters. They want fairness, they want progress, they want to overturn as much of the damage the Trump presidency has done as possible. They want a comprehensive immigration policy that treats all people as worthy of dignity and respect while still protecting legitimate borders. They want the promise of the Affordable Care Act restored and made better and more affordable — perhaps with a public option. They want sensible gun safety laws to protect our children.

Some of the pie-in-the-sky agenda items being proposed can get in the way of the practical agenda that is needed to return our country to a sane domestic and foreign policy that all of America can unite behind. The agenda being enunciated by current Democratic presidential candidates can turn away independents and Republicans who will absolutely be needed in 2020 to put Trumpism behind us.

We need to change the trajectory of our country. The progressive agenda being highlighted by Democratic candidates for president seems hell-bent on jumping over giant steps necessary to the process, in order to get to where they want. That could be a disastrous choice.

Run, Joe Biden, run.

[Pat Perriello, a retired educator from the Baltimore City Public Schools, served as the coordinator of Guidance and Counseling Services and an associate professor at Johns Hopkins University.]

reply

Great post!

Especially the first line: "Democrats are right on issue but dead wrong on language".

It's not enough to be right on issue. In order to win the DNC needs to speak the language of the common men and women, black and white. We can't pander to bigotry and xenophobia, but we have to focus rhetoric on those socioeconomic issues that those lower-class, relatively uneducated, voters do respond positively to.

reply

This is one big giant middle finger to the poor, you and the Judas goat OP explaining to the rubes why we have to keep running Hillaries instead of Bernies.

reply

Why? Because Hillaries have a better chance of winning than Bernies.

That's the sad truth of the matter.

My political sympathies are to the left, with people like Bernie, but I also desperately want to beat Trump.

I've seen what gambling on ideological purity, rather than relying on sure-fire pragmatism, can get you in the UK. It results in an unelectable Labour Opposition and a country that is now on the verge of crashing out of the EU.

reply

>>Especially the first line: "Democrats are right on issue but dead wrong on language".<<

SOME, not all. BOTH sides have to realize thar EACH side’s points have some merit, both sides have to realize or believe the other side just might have the better plan for some issues.

Until that starts to happen on a larger scale this divisiveness has no chance of noticably lessening by even 2030.

reply

I like Joe Biden but no more old people. Time is up. Go retire, fish, golf, rant at each other on backwater movie forums, but just go.

reply

But the US has an increasingly aging population. The Baby Boomer generation is a very large demographic. If the young can be mobilised to vote, they're mostly going to support the Democratic Party. So, the DNC needs to get oldies on its side if it's going to win this time.

reply

Boomers had their chance. We need youth, enthusiasm, and some idealism. The old folks really just want to keep things the same.

reply

We need someone who will get elected.

reply

We need to elect good people who have the energy and drive to change American politics. If we keep electing the same old crowd we'll get the same old result.

reply

That's right, because the "old folks" may know more, and remember the country as a better place than it is now.

reply

Boomers have been steering American politics since the 70s and frankly they also keep bitching that America is getting worse, cause and effect. Age doesn't being wisdom, it just brings experience, but all great discoveries and movements begin with younger people.

reply

And pre-boomers have been steering politics before that, and the generation before that and so on...
I'm speaking about the human condition, not politics. Age brings wisdom depending on the person. (it didn't used to be as much of the "I want what I want, and want it right now!" mentality)

from, late-boomer

reply

Yeah boomers used to be called the," if it feels good do it generation." Same generation that dodged the draft and spit on soldiers and now they pretend to be patriotic.

reply

[deleted]

I think he should run, and then get the crap kicked out of him for how clumsy and stupid he is going to sound. Biden is too old in ideas, nothing new, old ideas, from the major corporate supporting state ... Delaware .. the state is like the Grand Camen of the United States for how it has allowed corporations to dodge taxes. Biden has made so many gaffs and such silly comments, he constantly puts his foot in his mouth. Run and show everyone why you did not run before. Trump would make mincement out of him.

Bumbling or Blungling Biden Trump would call him.

reply

Yeah because Trump isn't old, stupid or bumbling whatsoever. No siree…🙄

reply

You nobly speak of how the culture war needs to end and loving the other side, blah, blah, blah, and then readily spew forth ignorant, hateful, intolerant MAGAphobic verbiage. Go figure.

reply

Firstly, Trump is President of the United States. Not some regular joe. Thus he is fair game, not least because he has a history of discrediting the office by attacking others with much less power than himself.

Secondly, how is my response to brux worse than brux's attack on Biden as 'too old', 'clumsy and stupid' and 'Bumbling or Blungling [? I don't actually know what that means] Biden'?

Thirdly, it's people like Trump who are perpetrating the culture war by attempting to rile his supporters into a frenzy over anyone who is different to them. I haven't attacked them, and I actually want to engage with them. But Trump is a lost cause and the sooner he's gone the better.

reply

" Delaware .. the state is like the Grand Camen of the United States for how it has allowed corporations to dodge taxes."

YEP, a shell company kingdom....

reply

You guys really need to lose this condescending idea you have about being right on policy but wrong on language. Language is all you have, and you have a monopoly on it. Everybody is fully aware of your positions. We hear them in the schools and see them defended on TV everyday. "We need an unrelenting stream of immigrants pouring over the border". That's Joe Biden, and it's not his language that's the problem.

Unscripted doesn't work for your side. Respectability does. Your side requires exactly the kind of careful slow boil planning that you paradoxically advocated as a reason to support Joe Biden. Your side is trying to win a war against nature. You want to tell us there are 57 genders and we're all equal, you want to ban everything from meat to guns. You want regulation and control of everything so badly, and it all starts with censoring social media. Give yourself some credit. You've done a heck of a job promoting some really unpalatable ideas. The country has gone from 90% white to 60% white in a couple generations, yet you still pretend the country is shifting right rather than left. You've kept AIPAC and the real reason for our Middle East wars completely under wraps. Bravo.

Censorship is the top of your agenda, and working great. But on a personal level, you've lost your ability to ever persuade anyone because your placed yourselves in a bubble so far out of touch with the other side. You're the establishment now and people hate you for it. I'm going to let you in on a secret. As a Trump supporter, I would vote for Tulsi Gabbard or Andrew Yanglin over Trump. I would have even voted for Sanders if he hadn't rolled over for Hillary. I would never ever consider voting for Biden.

So here you come, nice compassionate progressive, and you think you're compromising by promoting Biden? You're a spoiled rotten brat.

reply

ha this guy is a bozo

reply

You make some good points, I'm not against Biden running even though I see him as more moderate than progressive. But one key point I'd respectfully disagree with you on.

"It is necessary to shore up the Affordable Health Care Law before you can talk about Medicare for all."

The salient lesson of the Affordable Care Act is Democrats gained nothing for their efforts to accommodate Republican insistence on market-oriented solutions to expanding health care coverage. As I'm sure you know, the ACA was modeled on the successful plan passed by then gov Romney in Massachusetts and originated as a conservative Heritage Foundation proposal meant to provide a market-oriented alternative to Democratic universal coverage plans. Even worse than Republicans’ maximum resistance, many of the shortcomings of Obamacare were based on the plan’s concessions to the private insurance model of coverage.

This is what triggered a critical shift among the left. Single payer plans have always had substantial support among Democrats and for decades it was actually official party policy. But there was a moderate group who supported single payer in principle but found the politics intractable and too disruptive given how entrenched the private system is and how interwoven it is with employment. Probably the majority of elected Democrats have been in this middle group for the last couple decades. The politics around the Obamacare experience has led many in this middle group to realize that half measures and incrementalism are a fools errand and the need to bite the bullet to just implement a system that clearly works better in really every other wealthy industrialized democracy.

The problem with your proposed incrementalism of shoring up the ACA is we've seen how it doesn't work since it remains vulnerable to Republican sabotage to tear it all down again. Nationalizing health care under single payer would eliminate much of the private insurance sector and make it much less prone to sabotage.

reply

Imo 'Creepy' Joe Biden is going to be Trump's spinach fuel. Personally we need experienced fresh blood and not people near the age of amnesia. Joe Biden's got connections with Obama and 'Crooked' Hillary so there is tons of fuel going for Trump. Man, I wish there are better candidates. I'm thinking Bernie (less radical that AOC) but eh, dems need to all get behind someone soon else it'll be another 4 years of Trump.

reply

Yep, Trump would relish having a live "debate" with "creepy Joe".

reply

Joe Bidens constant gaffes mixed with Donald Trump's amazing wit will make for damn fine entertainment

reply

Especially if Tim Apple moderates and brings some hamberders for everyone to eat.

reply

Well i mean it's still better than calling your wife Michelle by the name of Michael over and over and over again like the Energizer Bunny

reply

I imagine “Melanie” is used to being called “Ivan’s” by now.

And of course, “Pence” calling his wife “Mother” is perfectly normal....

reply