How strange that we see no posts here referring to Sir David this way when he is making the sole purpose of the remainder of his incredible life to spread the same message as a certain teenage girl from Sweden.
It appears trolls and bullies can only pick on someone they perceive as weaker and less intelligent than themselves, then cower in silence when an educated man with a lifetime of experience studying the natural world also warns of the climate catastrophe we face.
Rubbish, Tim! The reason nobody insults Sir David Attenborough is because he has earned enormous respect and admiration from everyone who knows of him, and rightly so. We give him a pass when he says or does anything that we disagree with, because he's entitled to that indulgence.
The little lass from Sweden has no credentials and no qualifications, and has done nothing whatsoever to earn that concession. On the contrary, she's contemptuously insulted everyone, regardless of who they are. She insulted you, too, Tim.
I don’t see it that way but even if I did I’m big enough to take a dressing down from her without going to pieces or resorting to incredibly childish name calling. I can see past her manner, appearance and anger and understand the truth in her basic message.
I for one would like to live in a world where it doesn’t take an agitated teenager to open people’s eyes to the crisis we face but at the very least she has people debating the matter. That’s worth putting up with her sometimes abrasive methods.
I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind but a certain level of civility from those old enough to know better would be nice. I completely expect a “but she’s rude and insulting” response but that hardly addresses the issue she campaigns for, does it?
Perhaps most people are of the mind that teenagers should be silent and listen to boy bands and bully each other on social media and nothing else but I choose to give them more credit than that.
I don’t see Greta as a sage or a prophet or an especially talented public speaker but I’ll defend her right to speak without ridicule to the death.
That all sounds very virtuous, Tim, but are you sure it's not merely justifying an acquired fear of opposing a female? You don't quite sound like a soy boy, usually, but it sounds like there's a little bit of that in you. I could be wrong, though.
I'm big enough to respond with perfectly justified anger to being insulted by a teenage girl whom I'm not personally acquainted with. I haven't called her any specific disparaging slang names, (as far as I recall), but I certainly reserve the absolute right to tell her to shut her mouth and not speak until she knows who she's addressing, and learns how to do it politely. I'm taking it that you can "see past her manner, appearance and anger and understand the truth in her basic message" solely because you already think she's right. So, it doesn't offend you, even slightly, that she tacitly included you, who thinks she's right, in her insulting denunciation of everyone in her audience? Is that kind of "bigness" really a good thing, Tim?
I would have thought that anyone who genuinely believes the global warming thing would want very much to have a representative who at least knows how to behave civilly. After all, you put a high value on civility yourself.
Ha, that’s the most elaborate way to call someone a virtue signaller I’ve ever seen. Props, mate.
No, I have no problem opposing females of any age. And yes, I absolutely believe her message is true. I don’t however feel personally affronted by her manner or words. I could pretend for you if it makes you feel better, but the attitude of an activist is nothing that can personally offend me to the point of regressing to the attitude and actions of a schoolyard bully.
I might say “take it down a notch love” but honestly I will never be pushed to the point of the antics we see here on a daily basis. Especially when she wouldn’t care either way, and it would only be me giving myself an ulcer over someone who has a greater public profile than I’ll ever have.
I tried to avoid using that term, Tim. I don't much like the modern vernacular, tbh. It's got too much built-in ambiguity for my liking.
Anyway, I can only say that I hope, (although it doesn't affect me either way), that your tolerant attitude doesn't let you down some day. If you ever come across a pugnacious loudmouth who happens to espouse views with which you utterly disagree, and who shouts insults in your face to force you to believe her/him, you might have a dilemma on your hands.
Oh I’ve already been there. Surely you’ve seen my utter disdain for the big T-Bone?! He shouts nonsense too and yes, I am far less tolerant of that malarkey.
I’m an enigma wrapped in a contradiction. Ah well, what are you gonna do?
Well that's what I was getting at, Tim. You're tolerant of other peoples' opinions only if you already agree with them. Anyone else, it's malarkey.
That's actually not the definition of tolerance.
Your dilemma is that, if you're honest, you have to somehow reconcile those two attitudes. If you're not, you're fine with them. I suppose that's a problem we all have, one way or another.
I’m not disagreeing with you and yet you still have to talk down to me like a dry-snatched school ma’am. It’s rather funny.
Yeah I hate Trump but I reject that I’m not tolerant of conservative ideals. I believe Greta is genuinely concerned for the planet and Trump is genuinely concerned for himself at the expense of his country and the planet. That’s the difference.
Also, while Trump acts as immature as Greta, he really is old enough to know better. There is no concession for his age that I’ve already stated I give to Greta when she acts in a way I think is a little OTT.
I look forward to you telling me where I’ve gone wrong in your reliable condescending way. Bring it big boy.
If you took my tone as "talking down to you", I apologise. I was not consciously doing that. In fact, I was talking to you, (politely, I might add), as if you were a mature adult who would get what I meant. Apparently you missed that.
Anyway, you're bringing President Trump into this chat, for reasons known only to yourself, so I'll end my participation.
Dude don’t be disingenuous I mentioned Trump four responses ago and we were both discussing my reaction to him as opposed to Thunberg. NOW you want to end the chat because of it?
Fair enough, my apologies. Since I’m Australian I’m pretty sure it’s not an Americanism, just me being casually disrespectful. Again, nothing I’m trying to shy away from. It’s better to be honest about these things. My only reason for bringing him up is to agree that some could see that as an inconsistency, and I acknowledge that as fair enough.
I almost forgot we were originally discussing the great Mr Attenborough. I’m glad we at least agree he is something of a treasure 👍
In any case, it's liberals/socialists/Leftys who care too much about their feelings, and base their choices on them. Case in point, Thunberg's emotional outburst during what was supposed to be a frank rational discussion about climate.
One side accepts the science and some people are passionate about it. one side denies the science
your false equivalency is laughable like you.
again sorry you dont agree with the experts and scientific consensus and get triggered by young girls passionate because you are ruining her and others future. because you deny the facts the burden will be on her and future generations.
"you dont agree with the experts and scientific consensus and get triggered by young girls passionate because you are ruining her and others future. because you deny the facts the burden will be on her and future generations."
Lol, what were you saying about caring more about feelings than facts?!
Please show me all the major conservative politicians and outlets who agree with man made climate change. Which is the position of the consensus of scientists and scientific institutions around the world.
These are the facts. conservatives factually got triggered she was passionate! you even brought it up here yourself.
again I am sorry all this has triggered you. it doesn't change the validity of science or that she had good cause to be disgruntled.
This doesn't mean lefties let their feelings and emotions get in the way of science and facts. They are emotional because conservatives continue to deny these facts and the science
I'd appreciate it if you would stop saying that. It's getting to be cliched. And it's disingenuous, as well. In recent times, the Leftys have tried to win arguments by throwing back the same accusations that Conservatives had levelled at them, viz, that you're all about emotion and feelings. The trouble is, they don't fit. Because for years, Leftys have accused Conservatives of being cold, unfeeling, unsympathetic authoritarians who care nothing for anybody but themselves. Now you say we're easily triggered because we think with our emotions? Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
"it doesn't change the validity of science or that she had good cause to be disgruntled."
Correction: she believes she has cause to be disgruntled. She does not, however, have cause to be insolent.
wait so you cant be individualist and also driven by emotion? honestly where did you make this narrative up?
you called it an emotional outburst. You are by definition, triggered she was passionate. not a cliche, its true. and here you are still whining about her.
People were saying conservatives weren't emotionally driven when it came to gay rights or abortion? LOL you crated this narrative in your head and facts be damned.
"Correction: she believes she has cause to be disgruntled. She does not, however, have cause to be insolent."
AGAIN sorry you're driven by your emotions and feel that way. she was rude and arrogant? omg snowflake. seriously go away. someone being passionate has triggered your. awwww the old man triggered by someone being passionate about things.
you are a caricature of a joke of a caricature of a fragile conservative. your poor psyche. a child was passionate about the destruction of civilization and the burden to her generation
Imagine being so fragile that someone being passionate about the science and the biggest threat to civilizations existence causes you to whine someone is "insolent"
wow how pathetic are you?
i'm guessing it'll only be about 4 more exchange before you drop this faux guise and start denying the science.
you are a grown "man" (barely that) angry, shocked and set off by a 16 year old girl with autism who gave a passionate speech about the single largest existential threat to human civilization. which all the burden will be on her generation because half the political spectrum thinks its a hoax or lie and doesn't believe science.
How "insolent" of her.
yes you are a waste of time. Just start denying the science already and show your cards.
You just see the information, not the data for the most part.
But to pull apart some of the "data' - I've seen some pretty alarming CO2 graphs, but the data only goes back 150 years or so. But that's the graph that gets people up and about.
There has been scientific studies showing that there was heaps more CO2 thousands of years ago from ice samples, it went up, then went down, went down so much there was an ICE AGE or two.
There's so much we don't know about our planet, but ask anyone with hubris about "just believe in science" they are the same people that think humans have it all worked out.
You know this whole reality is vibrational frequencies, nothing solid, hell this whole reality has been scientifically proven that simply by witnessing something, actually changes the physical reality
Greta is fake news, she was not discovered, its all a setup PR thing, she was "discovered" by the same guy that did Al Gores stuff in the 00's when it came out,
Speaking of, The inconvenient Truth it's heavily been debunked in its various claims.
See its not so black and white, and its not really that conservatives disagree with science, its more so, just like in life, there is nuance and things exist in the grey area
You strike me as the type of person that sees things in black and white, generally based on hubris, generally limits the individual involved in all areas of life
"There has been scientific studies showing that there was heaps more CO2 thousands of years ago from ice samples, it went up, then went down, went down so much there was an ICE AGE or two. "
Yes the climate changes.......
"There's so much we don't know about our planet, but ask anyone with hubris about "just believe in science" they are the same people that think humans have it all worked out. "
NO THIS ISNT HOW IT WORKS. Jesus another failed person who doesn't understand science. please stop talking bout things you dont understand.
"You know this whole reality is vibrational frequencies, nothing solid, hell this whole reality has been scientifically proven that simply by witnessing something, actually changes the physical reality "
Cool story bro. I guess climate doesn't exist
"Greta is fake news, she was not discovered, its all a setup PR thing, she was "discovered" by the same guy that did Al Gores stuff in the 00's when it came out,
Speaking of, The inconvenient Truth it's heavily been debunked in its various claims. "
LOOOLLLLL cause al gore and the inconvenient truth is the scientific community? you honestly think I get my info from his movie. Again you are a sad embarrassment
"See its not so black and white, and its not really that conservatives disagree with science, its more so, just like in life, there is nuance and things exist in the grey area
You strike me as the type of person that sees things in black and white, generally based on hubris, generally limits the individual involved in all areas of life"
NO its more like there are heaps of evidence that point to it. Research has shown that the climate is changing above what it should naturally and that man is contributing to this
its like every single discovery in the past when you would have either conservatives or the church kicking and screaming denying it. and then saying "well no its a grey area you just see things in black and white"
Lol is evolution a grey area and people who believe it just extremists who see it in "black and white"
You strike me as someone who doesn't understand how the scientific method works, scientific consensus and how we come to accept theories.
you re trying to muddy the water by throwing politics in and acting like they re political sctors.
Here's a list of 200 reputable real scientific institutions who support that man made climate change is happening.
Amazing how I can provide this, while you can only provide unknown, unrepeatable groups like "friends of science" who some claim to have thousands of members, but when researched you either cant support that number or you find out they count people with English or arts PHD's as "scientists" LOL
That was essentially a long form of "No", with nothing else really added
You could just have more confidence in yourself and just tell me I am wrong in one sentence.
I didn't need the bullshit beta toxic straw-man to insult myself so your fragile ego can get away unharmed
Enjoy your life and I feel sorry for your partner.
Nothing added. Except 200 scientific institutions who have seen the evidence and agree with me and have come to a consensus...
vs you saying the inconvenient truth isnt right and science isn't black and white..
I dont insult you cause i'm fragile. I insult you cause you are embarrassing yourself and an insult to my and everyones intellect here when you try and talk about science.. Talking about things you clearly have no understanding of and misrepresenting them.. Im sorry you dont know how science works and think "nah its just them liberals lying! our side has science that agrees with us too!"
it isnt and you dont.
May I suggest redoing high school and learning how science works?
To be honest with you, I saw that link after I commented, I got 3/4 the way through and just gave up initially
I stand by what I said prior as it fits for everything, apart from that link, which is the only thing you actually brought up again, which is fair enough
Your post was just toxic male beta bullshit, I was repulsed and hence gave up
I don't owe you anything
I didn't provide any links and there's all this shit that you refer to, that I simply never said.
I assume there's a cross post here or something?
If you were more respected in real life, you wouldn't be so negerrr emergerrrd like srsly guies I've like got sch a serial point to make. shhhhh. srsly guies. listen to me
you have your opinion, anti science and nothing. good job. Im sorry I dont tolerate anti science nonsense. Look at you. anti climate change, anti covid.
you re the worst of society. uneducated and trying to talk with authority
"but da inconvenient truth has been debunked derp derp"
This is the thing, I am in the grey area. If you are to ask me what the solution is to this climate change thing? (I never denied it, but just wanted to see how far your projection/assumption would go)
Nuclear for core power generation, with development of solar and battery tech, with phased installation onto all homes, with feedback, back into the grid.
It feeds into my masters I'm currently doing
RE: COVID-19 my aunty is a doctor, my dad has his PHD in bio-chem, one of my best mates is a recent graduate / doctor, and they say COVID-19 is not the end of the world
Never denied it exists
I really wonder how much else you just miss in your day to day interactions, with all your assumptions and its black and white with no grey
To the individuals detriment or there about's I think I said, and here we are.
You are completely wrong about my positions on things
"This is the thing, I am in the grey area. If you are to ask me what the solution is to this climate change thing? (I never denied it, but just wanted to see how far your projection/assumption would go)"
if you are in the grey zone, you dont believe the science.
are you also in the grey zone about gravity?
"Nuclear for core power generation, with development of solar and battery tech, with phased installation onto all homes, with feedback, back into the grid. "
the solution has nothing to do with whether its true or not
"RE: COVID-19 my aunty is a doctor, my dad has his PHD in bio-chem, one of my best mates is a recent graduate / doctor, and they say COVID-19 is not the end of the world
Never denied it exists"
except you spread "we are just the free men" nonsense below.
"I really wonder how much else you just miss in your day to day interactions, with all your assumptions and its black and white with no grey
"
Wtf are you talking about? go back to high school you embarrassment
"To the individuals detriment or there about's I think I said, and here we are.
You are completely wrong about my positions on things"
Thats why you continually parrot and peddle the same nonsense anti science conservative crap about climate change and covid. if it quacks like a duck
"did you know dat da inconvenient truth was debunked!"
"if you are in the grey zone, you don't believe the science."
The grey zone is, I believe in the science, HOWEVER there are practical restrictions because of the way the world is.
"except you spread "we are just the free men" nonsense below."
Got nothing to do with anything, you can be a free man, not wear a mask, not be scared about it, go on with your life, and just get on with it. AND still believe its a real virus.
GREY AREA AGAIN
"Wtf are you talking about? go back to high school you embarrassment"
"Thats why you continually parrot and peddle the same nonsense anti science conservative crap about climate change and covid. if it quacks like a duck"
See above, you missed ALL of that grey area, which invalidates all your statements and inferences about myself
Honestly, maybe you're just not as smart, as you think you actually are
"The grey zone is, I believe in the science, HOWEVER there are practical restrictions because of the way the world is. "
cant grasp science. doesn't grasp what grey zone means. By definition you either believe that man made climate change is happening, or it isnt.
"Got nothing to do with anything, you can be a free man, not wear a mask, not be scared about it, go on with your life, and just get on with it. AND still believe its a real virus."
and yet by you doing this prove you are a sad idiot who is ignoring the science, leading to the spread of the pandemic and increasing its damage and actively leading to people dying. But im a "free man" so its good. By that logic you say murdering or drinking or driving is fine. its not a grey zone. Its a fact that you are increasing the chances of endangering not only yourself, but anyone around you. I'm starting to think you have no clue what the term "grey zone" means...
"See above, you missed ALL of that grey area, which invalidates all your statements and inferences about myself
Honestly, maybe you're just not as smart, as you think you actually are"
LEARN WHAT GREY ZONE MEANS. Jesus man how do you function in real life being this stupid?
the sun either exists or it doesn't. an made climate change is either happening or it isnt. You not wearing a mask and ignoring scientifically proven safety precautions either increases the spread or it doesnt.
you can say "I think we should keep using nuclear power". you can say "I think we should or should not do X or Y when fighting climate change"
YOU CANNOT SAY "I think climate change is a grey zone"
LOL what does this even mean? that's like saying "I think evolution is a grey zone". Evolution is an observed fact, the theory of evolution explains the phenomenon we see
Again you are what an idiot with no understanding science sounds like when talking about science.
You come across as a very immature, name-calling and passive aggressive type of guy. What's wrong? Are you - is this the right english word - "butthurt"?
I remember saying in December that the reason I knew people didn't 'really' believe that the world was going to fry in 5-10 years is because they weren't rioting in the streets etc at the news.
Little did I know that 2 months later an actual global catastrophe ala COVID-19 had people doing just that.
I'm looking forward to a greener, cleaner western world ... Just need to work on some other countries too in the meantime.
its sad mouth breathing conservatives who dont know anything about biology, let alone have a PHD or focused in virology.
its why again I have the consensus on my side. and you have that sex demon lady and that other Fox News "doctor" who almost lost his licence for charging families 10s of thousands to inject bleach in kids with cancer which did nothing.
this is what happens when you never went to school, dont have an education and cant discern between actual science and academia and something you read on Facebook.
umm what are you talking about? this more of your nonsense?
yes sorry I have science on my side and called out your nonsense. I must be trying to "improve lot and position in the social hierarchy will get better as time goes on"
Its funny, you actually think you were being objective and were just merely talking about science with another fellow gentleman. And this guy is crazy! What is he on about!
Honestly feel sorry for you dude
You got really personal, really nasty and you are clearly on some sort of conquest
"i have science on my side"
Right, so I guess you are into tribalism then, black and white, no grey.
As I said, if you weren't such a loser and weak bitch in real life, you simply would just be stating your objective opinion about shit, with a lill shit talk around it, to dress it up.
Instead you do what you've done
yes you feel sorry that I accept the science, and you are still "in a grey zone" because you feel like the world isnt "black and white".
Nice vague and totally scientific belief you have there.
"Right, so I guess you are into tribalism then, black and white, no grey."
LOOL is that your buzz word/phrase?
you sound like every single sad conservative "unless you think my non supported anti science opinion is just as valid as the scientific consensus you are just tribalist! and not open minded"
"As I said, if you weren't such a loser and weak bitch in real life, you simply would just be stating your objective opinion about shit, with a lill shit talk around it, to dress it up.
Instead you do what you've done "
LOL look at Matt dillahunty or Aaron Raa. Matt is arguably the best anti theist debater in modern history, consistency destroying his opponent. He talks shit all the time.
This "he was mean to me so hes wrong and a meanie and weak" is the sad escape hatch for losers like you who cant actually support their position and latch on to that to play the victim and cry
Me making fun of your lack of intellect has no bearing on my arguement or me. Im sorry you re the fragile whiner. maybe come back with science
Well as others already pointed out, this guy actually knows what he is talking about, is highly educated, intelligent, well spoken, humble and eager to present scientific based facts.
So basically the exact opposite to our little potato girl from Sweden.