MovieChat Forums > Mary Tyler Moore Discussion > I liked her better on the Dick Van Dyke ...

I liked her better on the Dick Van Dyke Show...


The MTM Show is kind of dated to me. She was okay in the earlier Seasons, but her character "Mary Richards" became hard and cynical in the later ones, and it was just not very funny to me.

I always remember her as Laura Petrie on DVD show- to me that was her best work. And she and Dick Van Dyke had perfect chemistry. Granted, she was so young at the time, but it worked for her. MTM show had its moments, but never was enjoyable to me as the other one.

"Life is like a box of Krispy Kreme donuts".

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The Dick Van Dyke show was pure perfection and there has never been a more perfectly adorable TV couple than Dick and Mary as Rob and Laura Petrie.

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Both shows were great and exactly what they should have been. And Mary got to be in both of them!

But Laura and Mary Richards were two different people. And I never saw Mary Richards as becoming "hard and cynical" because she didn't! She just grew up and didn't suffer fools quite as easily as she once did.

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Mary Richards was sweet and nice in the first 3 Seasons. Later on she become hard and sarcastic. She even put down Ted. It just seemed like her character did a 180. Its probably because she was getting older and not married. She wound up an employed old maid. It wasn't very happy ending.


"Life is like a box of Krispy Kreme donuts".

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It's funny you should say that. I've always thought something similar. I know Mary Tyler Moore gets more praise for her work on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" because she was a trailblazing example to single, working women, etc. But I thought "The Dick Van Dyke Show" was just funnier, doing am absolutely superb balance of workplace and domestic comedy. And I always thought that between the two characters Laura (and Rob) Petrie probably had the happier life. It's not that I think a woman's role is to be a wife and mother instead of a career woman either; I'd say the same thing about a man. I think that a Robert Petrie, who had a wife and family to come home to at the end of his work day, was also probably a happier man than a divorced man or a bachelor character, coming home to an empty apartment would have been either. The Petries adored each other, had a son they loved (and could have had more children later), an active and happy social life, and they were good, close friends with Rob's coworkers and their own neighbors. All in all, that seemed a much happier life for the both of them than Mary Richards' life as a single career person.

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I don't begrudge someone preferring the DVD show over the MTM show, but trying to explain their life happiness expectations is a bit bizarre. How happy were Lucy and Desi? Ralph and Alice? What about these fictional people makes you root for them in real life? The Van Dyke show benefited from having Rose Marie, Morey A and Carl R to help with the mix of comedy. Moore had to carry the MTM show, with a lot of help from Asner, Knight, Harper, Leachman, et al. They are different shows. I'm glad you like one more than the other. That's normal.

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Not to me. It was totally out of character for her. But she became a middle aged angry bitter feminist, so I guess it fits the political rhetoric of the show.



"Life is like a box of Krispy Kreme donuts".

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Interesting how people can watch the same character and come away with different impressions!

Althogh I loved the show right from the start, the early Mary Richards would sometimes make me grind my teeth because she was such a willing doormat. She allowed people to take advantage of her.

When she would do that singsongy, "Oh, Miiister Graaaaant" or allow someone else to push her around, I'd want to scream. She would mumble and act like a little girl being scolded by her teachers. In the first episode she "had spunk" but when Mr. Grant said, "I hate spunk!" , she apparently decided to hide that part of herself for a while.

It was part of her personality when she was young. When the show starts, Mary has left her hometown after spending a number of years with a young man who is becoming a doctor. She waited and waited on marriage because he wanted to wait. He finally became a doctor and backed out on the engagement.

It was obvious to me that Mary was a bit passive. She waited a long time and obviously didn't make any ultimatums or demands. When she took the newsroom job, she was still in the habit of being passive. But she finally learned how to assert herself! About time!

I never thought there was anything wrong in her putdowns of Ted. He could be such a pompous ass! Murray zinged Ted on a daily basis . But somehow when Mary did it, she's a bitter woman or a b#tch? Ted often had it coming. He took advantage of her sweet nature many times. He took terrible advantage of Georgette and she often put up with it until Mary tried to teach her not to be a doormat.

When Georgette was introduced, two female doormats was one too many. Mary had to evolve a little. People do sometimes grow and learn to assert themselves. I don't see how she was bitter in the last season when she finally got a serious boyfriend (played by Ted Bessell). Unlike all of Mary's other guys, she really seemed to love him.

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You are welcome to your own judgement.
An actor has to move on from their first parts. The MTM show is probably better known for MTM than DVD. Loved her in the Dyke show (yow!) but the MTM show showed her as a mature woman, and that's significant. She had a great relationship with her friends and her boyfriends and co-workers, and it was healthy.

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The MTM show is probably better known for MTM than DVD.

🤔 There's an exceptional strong chance that is true...

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Maybe I should have said MTM is better known for her own show than DVD, where she was a mature woman and not a ditzy young housewife. Both roles were great, and she even caught some notice for her icy manner for Ordinary People.
I like Mary Tyler Moore a lot.

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