MovieChat Forums > Michael Jackson Discussion > Why aren't there more accusers?

Why aren't there more accusers?

posted 5 years ago by TheReccher (343)
38 replies | jump to latest

There were plenty of accusers when he was alive. Unfortunately nothing they said amounted to any real evidence and they all ended up being extortionists.

But now that there is literally nothing stopping these so called victims, where are they? Did he only have a few victims and are those small numbers tooo afraid to come forth or perhaps they've moved on? Well no. That's not possible because pedophiles always have plenty of victims. Yet not one person has come forth, except these two washed up clowns who are obviously in desperate need of a buck.

Is it because they fear his celebrity? Is it because they're afraid no one will believe them because he's godamn Michael Jackson and how dare you slander him? No way. Especially in today's climate. People came out against the beloved Bill Cosby, they came out against Weinstein. Against Spacey, who is an extremely talented actors when he was at the height of making a beloved Netflix show. Reily. World renowned comedian, everybody loved him, no one does anymore. Nobody thinks being a celebrity makes you a good person. That's in the past. If anything rich celebrities are being scrutinized further. All it will take is one man to come out and say it, and CNN won't stop talking about it for ten years.

There is nothing stopping anyone from coming out and saying it...oh wait they can't make money off of him anymore because he's dead. Nevermind.

[–] Nirvana (271) 5 years ago

Pedo or not this dude was a fuckin creep. I remember when i first heard of him as a kid my mom was watching some documentary on oprah or some shit and I got scared just seeing him. I don't understand how any kid would wanna hangout with him, he gives off pedo vibes from a mile away

[–] Destinata (2590) 5 years ago

He had a private zoo and an amusement park -- supposedly because he loved animals and had an "inner child" that had to be fed, but when it finally got through to him that he couldn't keep acting like a pedophile from central casting, he walked away from all those animals he "cared about" without a second thought.

He, at one time, was the biggest entertainer in the world. Think of the top five people in the music industry, roll them together, that was Michael. He was the coolest of the cool; the hottest of the hot. No one could touch him. That cachet was enough for some. For others, it was the fact that his compound was like a kid magnet.

But yes, that fake voice, those feminine mannerisms, the fact that he'd give kids wine and call it "Jesus Juice" -- all of it was far too creepy. If he wasn't buying expensive gifts for the parents, I doubt he could have kept them mollified. Some stock broker with a middle class lifestyle who acted and sounded like him, asking to have children come over for sleepovers, would have been reported to the police with his first advance.

[–] Nirvana (271) 5 years ago

Parents who pimp there kids should be tortured and shot! I can't imagine putting a kid at harm for any amount of money let alone your own kid

[–] Destinata (2590) 5 years ago

The parents are as much as to blame as the perpetrator, yes.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

There was much more to it than that. The parents themselves were groomed, which is what pedophiles do because they know they have to in order to gain regular access to the children; and, they're very good at it.

[–] Destinata (2590) 5 years ago

As Lisa Marie said, he was always manipulating, always looking for an angle. Someone like that would be very good at grooming parents.

[–] Destinata (2590) 5 years ago

As you implied, they all got paid off.

Plus, only someone really brave would go up against his diehard fans. They throw dead pets on people's yards, verbally harass relatives, and make death threats. Most people don't think it's worth dealing with the crazies.

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

We need to do away with this delusion that a small bunch of crazies online can fear monger and control the rest of the world. Entire corporations pull back their products because they think a few whiny cunts on Twitter can put a dent in their PR. It's nonsense.

Plus you think really think victims of child rape are going to let some vague threat stop them fro getting the truth out? They already suffered the crime you can be a victim of. Spacey, Cosby, and Reily all had their die hard fans too. Every celebrity has that. The worst you've ever seen of them actually being dangerous to anyone is a Nolanite threatening a critic after he gave the Dark Knight a bad review.

Yeah they don't exist. The "victims" were really extortionists and now no one's coming out because there's no celebrity to extort.

[–] Destinata (2590) 5 years ago

They're not just online. They dox people so their counterparts who live nearby can physically harass the people. Jordan Chandler took his payoff money and ran to Europe to get away from the crazies after they started throwing dead pets onto his lawn and making death threats.

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

Jordan Chandler's father was one of the extortionists I'm talking about. He left a video taped confession bragging about how much money he was going to steal from Michael after inexplicably taking the case to civil court. He had aspirations of making it as a Hollywood screenwriter and he commited a guilt ridden suicide months after the facade. The boy was blatantly a tool, as was his father. Fanboy attack? No that's justice.

And those attacks are so tame. If I were a rape victim of a beloved celebrity a bunch of empty threats wouldn't stop me from getting the truth out. Didn't stop those two money grubbing bozos from making a documentary did it and they weren't even victims (don't even debate it they weren't. This has a get-rich-quick stench all over it)? And where are the threats against them?

[–] Destinata (2590) 5 years ago

Jordan Chandler's father was a jerk, which is why Jordan was estranged from him. He basically sold his son, after initially having concerns about the relationship. MJ found out he could be bought. Child molesters try to find children from broken homes. It works both ways -- the child is craving an adult who sees him as special, and the emotional and moral cripples who are the parents are easily bought off. As Lisa Marie said, he was a master manipulator, always looking for an angle.

You don't know why Evan Chandler killed himself. He had obvious mental problems. At one point, he tried to kill his son, which forced Jordan to slap a restraining order on his father. Between that and the death threats from crazy fans, I don't think Jordan needed any more pain.

"And those attacks are so tame." So people get doxxed, fans start calling and harassing, dead animals are thrown on their lawns with notes attached saying, "You're next!" And if that started happening to you, you'd say it was "So tame!" Kids have killed themselves over much less bullying. "Tame" it's not, and you definitely wouldn't feel that way if it were happening to you -- another keyboard warrior who's so tough in anonymity.

Which makes a person wonder, if MJ was all peace and light, why were so many of his fans such sickos? No, the fact that two people were brave enough to face what you're blowing off while hiding behind your computer is amazing. Most people wouldn't want to face the weirdos, crazies and sickos who think they'd be handing out "justice" if they attacked someone who accused the Great Man of what it looked like he was doing anyway -- to anyone not blinded by fanboy devotion. But since there are none so blind as those who will not see, I'll let you have the last word. I can't change your mind -- "MJ good. Accusers bad." 🙄

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

Jordan Chandler's father was more than a jerk. He was a narcissist with delusions of grandeur. He was a lowly dentist with dreams of being a screenwriter who acted like a distraught father but gave no reasons as to why he took this to civil court, other than a video taped confession bragging about how much money he was going to make before the boy even confessed. Jordan himself was screaming for money way in excess of anything a kid with a 10$/week allowance could even dream of. The grown accuser also refused to show up in the 2005 case even though it was with the same lawyer.

And I stand by my statement those attacks are tame. Wanna know why? Because there are careers where people have to stand up that abuse all the time. Critics, journalists, district attorneys. Yes kids have killed themselves over that because they're kids but adults can stand up to much worse. Especially victims of child rape, plenty of which aren't afraid to die. Getting the truth out would be the only relief they have.

Your third argument is beyond ridiculous. A man's actions can only speak for his character and no one else's. An artist/entertainer are going to have sickos in their fanbase. It happens all the time and it's not something they can help.

[–] Destinata (2590) 5 years ago

You're right. A father who pimps out his son is more than a jerk. What he was was someone that MJ could easily manipulate because he thought of himself first and wanted to get into show biz as a screenwriter. And -- Cha-Ching! -- MJ's just rented himself a child, no questions asked.

Ooh, Jordan wanted MJ to pay for what he did. Oh, shame on him! He should have been glad he could spend the time kicking back, drinking "Jesus Juice" and being fondled by the great man. 🙄

"And I stand by my statement those attacks are tame. Wanna know why? Because there are careers where people have to stand up that abuse all the time. Critics, journalists, district attorneys." Using that crippled logic, being shot and killed is "tame" because there are careers where people have to stand up to that all the time -- police and the military. Again, it's easy for you to say all this, kicked back, maybe drinking your "Jesus Juice," and listening to MJ on your headphones while you type in a climate controlled room, safe and sound. Let your phone ring every five minutes with someone saying they want to do something sick to your child or to you and let's see how "tame" you think it is, keyboard warrior.

My guess is you know nothing of what it's like to have PTSD. No, you don't run toward the fire. Trust me on this one. It's not surprising they don't tell, even as adults.

No, my third argument is not beyond ridiculous. I've seen hardcore MJ fans say that they're inspired to live their lives for the things they believe he stood for. So no, if the hardcores are so inspired by his "gentle nature," why are they so out for what they want to call "justice," thinking it's "tame" for his victims to have to suffer?

[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

Nutso people are nutso. Look at the Alex Jones fans who still harass and threaten Sandy Hook parents.

[–] ProductionNow (1072) 5 years ago

You're in denial because there are supposedly not more accusers. So, if somebody is raped, they must be lying because the perpetrator was not a serial rapist, according to your theory. (still, not every victim comes forward as other posters have mentioned--or are not taken seriously)

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

Rapists/serial killers aren't the same as pedophiles. Serial killers leave dead victims with no patterns to speak off and are notoriously difficult to catch, and rape is a power fantasy. Some rapists only do it sporadically, or on the spur of the moment and manage to get away with it. Pedophilia is an ADDICTION. It's an extremely powerful one that can rival any drug. There would be plenty of victims, especially for a man who practically had all those children in the palm of his hand.

[–] ProductionNow (1072) 5 years ago

Pedophiles can also be notoriously to difficult catch if the victim does not come forward, or does not know the identity of the pedophile or where they reside, or there is not enough evidence to prove they were violated. You dont' know every pedophile's individual pattern of whether they offend on the spur of the moment, or 24/7.

Jackson may have violated boys in another country (as I vaguely remember hearing) who cannot even literally communicate with the authorities. Not every boy who came into sexual-contact with Jackson is necessarily going to report it for the D.A. to investigate, and turn into a media sensation. I know pedophilia is an addiction, but serial-rape/killers is also a form of addiction, regardless if it's a "power fantasy" . A compulsion is much like an addiction

The bottom line is that you, personally, likely feel betrayed and disappointment because you admired Michael Jackson, as the famous entertainer he was .If it was an everyday person and/or a stranger, I don't know if you would be so adamant. At the same time, I also do not think his accusers remotely deserved 20M

[–] hatethejess (1) 5 years ago

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

"Unfortunately nothing they said amounted to any real evidence and they all ended up being extortionists."

No they didn't. The first was a British guy, a teen at the time who interviewed MJ and MJ continued contact with him via phone. During one of their conversations MJ asked the teen (15 or 16, MJ was in his later 20s) about his masturbation practices, and told him he was masturbating right then on the phone. The kid didn't like that, MJ realised it, and didn't do it again. The kid never sued him, and while he talked about it for a while, doesn't want to talk about it anymore, and I don't blame him.

Next I know of was Jordan Chandler, and their were two other kids who were going to testify to MJ's molesting them as well, so that makes four at that point. Jordan's life was ruined; the kids at school make his life there hell, and he was hounded by the press, so he left the country and no one knows where he is even now. The criminal case was dropped because he refused to testify, and without his testimony, the DA didn't have enough to prosecute it since the case centered on him.

The other kid had a lunatic for a mother, who was definitely an extortionist, but that doesn't mean MJ didn't molest him. I believe there were a couple other kids testifying in that trial too, but I'm a bit foggy on that, so wouldn't swear to it.

Then Wade and James. You see them as washed up clowns in desperate need of a buck, I see two victims of a long-time pedophile who managed to get away with it for decades, just like Jimmy Savile. MJ just had a more pleasant and charismatic persona and was more famous and beloved.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

"But now that there is literally nothing stopping these so called victims"

There's plenty stopping them. Look at how people like you are treating Robson and Safechuck. People did the same with Cosby's victims, even when the number grew to near 100. Who needs that piled on top of dealing with the initial abuse? Who needs being hounded by the press, and called vile names by "fans"?

With Cosby, it took decades for people to slowly come forward, and it's easy to see why.

Likewise with Weinstein's victims. In both instances, people's careers and livelihood was at stake, on top of the rest involved with being a victim of MJ.

Then there's the stigma of a guy being molested. It's bad enough for a woman, but worse and more shameful (shouldn't be, but it is) for a man. Women don't want that public, but men really don't want it.

Lastly, Destinata summed it up about the lunatic MJ fans. It's one thing to be a fan of someone, but the blind, hate-filled, hero-worshipping zealotry for someone they never even knew too many of them exhibit, is quite another.

I don't know why MJ has such a fan base. Not that I don't understand people admiring his music, showmanship, or outstanding dancing talent. But the out and out adoration and blind zealotry, that I don't get. Even if he was the biggest pop star ever. Even bigger than Elvis, and that took some doing.

[–] ProductionNow (1072) 5 years ago

The "biggest pop-star ever" had a mediocre screechy repetitive voice for the easily impressed and only hyped because was a "cute" black man, with the while glove, moonwalk (and other antics) . Most overrated ever. He could not touch Elvis' voice, nor Tom Jones, and many others.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Whether MJ or Elvis had the better voice is a matter of opinion because it's subjective. Their voices were very different, although neither of them had a lot of range so they had that in common.

Personally, I wasn't much of a fan of either of them, but it is a fact that MJ became much bigger than Elvis. Objectively, it's a wash on voice. Both could sing, no question about that. However MJ was by far the better dancer. IMO that was where his real genius lay, although I know those who loved the songs he wrote and sang will disagree. But as a dancer and choreographer, he really was great.

He also wrote, and Elvis didn't. Both acted in some movies (Elvis many, MJ one) and were mediocre at it, but Elvis gets the edge on acting.

So overall, MJ was more multitalented, objectively speaking. The rest is subjective.

I will say I still think it's hilarious to hear MJ, with his high-pitched voice, sing Bad, in the most non-bad voice I can imagine.

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

I'm not treating Robson and Safechuck as hucksters simply because they accused Michael, I'm treating them like hucksters because al signs point to it. Safechuck has been doing nothing but treating Michael Jackson like a pal every time his name his mentioned, but now that he's poor suddenly he's changed his story and charging HBO money for it. Safechuck's allegations are filled with holes. The station Michael allegedly raped him in didn't open until 3 years after his account, and he would have 17 by that time, which might as well be a 30 year old to a peadophile. This list goes on though. They're the only allegation so far and it's a fishy one.

As for Bill Cosby, women have lied about rape. There have been cases where innocent men went away for it. So it was fair to give him the benefit of the doubt in the beggining until the numbers got large enough. And my point is that, why haven't we reached these numbers with Michael Jackson if he committed the worst crime of all time? The Cosby/Wesintein fiascos opened the door for it. Nobody worships celebrities anymore, half the ill-informed population are primed to believe Jackson did it judging by how many people were swayed by a documentary that presented almost no facts...where are they?

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Actually, you are doing exactly that. You already know victims of child molestation very commonly defend their abusers -- including many who never speak out to anyone about what happened. But, because it's MJ, the circumstantial evidence that you so dislike when it comes to him, you're more than willing to use when it comes to James (his being "poor"). He has been paid no money for HBO's Leaving Neverland, BTW. I find it difficult to believe you don't know that by now.

This is what makes it difficult for me to take you seriously. Your bias is so obvious, you use a lot of hyperbole, are too willing to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your bias, or look objectively at anything that doesn't fit MJ being innocent.

About the train station, it was built prior to being issued the permits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRE8MH8PDbs&feature=youtu.be
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverland/comments/bg5twn/michael_jacksons_photographer_says_the_train/

This isn't surprising. I know for fact that Santa Barbara County is notoriously difficult in issuing building permits. They drag things out for years, so MJ had a lot of company in going ahead and building sans permits, and dealing with getting them later.

Come on, you have to know Wade and James are hardly the only ones who've made child molestation allegations against MJ.

Few woman lie about rape. It happens, but the percentage is quite low. So would it be okay with you if he'd "only" raped one woman? Five? Twenty five? Just how many numbers would it take before it'd be believable to you? Obviously six isn't enough for you when it comes to MJ.

I'd say that many of the posts on this board alone prove that celebrity worship is still alive and well.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

"And my point is that, why haven't we reached these numbers with Michael Jackson if he committed the worst crime of all time?"

You asked this at least once before, and I answered. This is like talking to a wall.

"Where are these kids by the way? They'de be adults now. They can come out in the wake of this documentary and say it. I mean, it's gotta to be some good closure. Nothing's stopping them, other than the fact they don't exist [...]"

It would be good closure, but I don't see how can say there's nothing stopping them. Look at all the hate, suspicion, and vitriol being heaped on everyone who's spoken out so far. Wade has received at least one death threat by an unhinged fan. They are under public Klieg lights, and not in a good way. Would you want that? I sure as hell wouldn't. Would it be the right thing to do? Yes, but I can understand why someone wouldn't want to subject themselves to all that.

Jordan Chandler had to move out of the country to avoid it all. Of course it's a lot easier to disappear like that when you've got $20 million to work with. But most wouldn't have anywhere near that kind of resource.

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

That argument is ridiculous. Celebrities, critics, politicians, athletes etc. have suffered threats all the time I've never seen a case where they abandoned their life and fled the country. Where was there any real evidence that his life was in danger and why didn't he just hire protection or alert authorities? Sorry but a tiny minority of loons leaving Internet tough guys messages might strike fear in the hearts of a few men, but it's not going to force such a large number of people to cower in fear in their house.

Jordan Chandler left the country at the 2005 case, RIGHT SMACK AT THE BEGINNING, by the way, because as a child in the 1993 case he was used as a tool by his extortionist father, and as an adult he consumed by guilt and embarrassment. He couldn't directly say 'no" to showing up in court because that would look weird.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

He was 13 years old when the death threats started. What don't you get about this? It was 1993, no "internet tough guys messages," there were up to 12 death threats received a day, delivered to their home address. A dead rat in a box with its head cut off was also delivered to their home. This was no "tiny minority."

Evan Chandler began carrying a gun when they left the house. Jordan was nearly run over by a car. Was that one of MJ's crazed fans? No one knows, but it wasn't unreasonable to think it might have been.

He was bulled when he went to school, stopped playing with his friends, he rarely left the house. He was hounded by the press -- mainstream, tabloids, and paparazzi. Even if you believe his father made up, somehow brainwashed Jordan (which is impossible to believe if you read Jordan's detailed interview with the psychologist specialist), and manufactured the whole thing, how anyone could fail to be sympathetic to him is beyond normal human understanding.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

He left the country at the 2005 case to avoid more of the same. Hadn't he been through enough?

"because as a child in the 1993 case he was used as a tool by his extortionist father, and as an adult he consumed by guilt and embarrassment. He couldn't directly say 'no" to showing up in court because that would look weird."

Your hard evidence for this, outside of your imagination, is what?

Again, his father was investigated for over 5 months by the LA County crime unit on the extortion charge, and it was found that there was no evidence to support it.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-01-25-me-15027-story.html

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

"and as an adult he consumed by guilt and embarrassment. He couldn't directly say 'no" to showing up in court because that would look weird."

Completely debunked.

On 9/28/04 Jorden was questioned in preparation for the trial. He told them he had no interest in testifying against MJ, that he'd legally fight any attempt to make him, and that "he believed he had [already] done his part."

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/fbi-took-shot-jackson?page=3

1. He did directly say he wouldn't show up in court.
2. No guilt, no embarrassment; he thought he'd already done enough 10 years earlier.

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

So let me get this straight, you're saying that Chandler fled the country, stated out loud that he's so desperate not to fight again in court he would literally legally battle subpoenas to show his face and fight the guy who raped him as a child, all because...he did it once already....and, two times in 12 years is really tedious?

Yeah that's not a lame excuse at all.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Yeah, that's exactly what I've said 🙄

Hello again, wall.

[–] TheReccher (343) 5 years ago

Yello wall. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. What I was trying to convey is that...

...THAT'S FUCKING STUPID.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Good lord, you are dense. There's really no other way to put it.

I've laid out to you the psychology of victims of child molestation over and over again. It's well documented by many, many experts in the field. And yet, none of it penetrates your MJ truther brain.

[–] hatethejess (1) 5 years ago

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[–] L1 (1316) 5 years ago

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[–] captainbucky (15252) 5 years ago

Earth song

[–] ProductionNow (1072) 5 years ago

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[–] hatethejess (1) 5 years ago

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